'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

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caedmon
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'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by caedmon »

Haven't seen it me'self, but I'm sure everyone's got opinions....
-Jack Horner

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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by Straelbora »

caedmon wrote:Haven't seen it me'self, but I'm sure everyone's got opinions....
I just sat back and enjoyed all the fighting. If you disconnect it from what you've read in the book, it helps. It was visually stunning, had some genuine emotional moments, and as always, incredible visuals.
Vápnum sínum skala maðr velli á
feti ganga framar því at óvist er at vita
nær verðr á vegum úti geirs um þörf guma
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by Manveruon »

Those three movies have plenty of great material for a really solid, 3-hour fan-edit. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever that they needed to be drawn out into 3 films. Ludicrous.

Also - spoiler alert...

War bats? Sand worms? Really? REALLY?
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by caedmon »

Manveruon wrote: War bats? Sand worms? Really? REALLY?

Goblins road giant bats in the book, but sand worms? really? Is that a dwarf thing?
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by Manveruon »

I must have forgotten the bat-riding goblins. The sand worms were actually mentioned in the book too, according to a friend of mine, but only in passing.
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by caedmon »

Manveruon wrote:I must have forgotten the bat-riding goblins. The sand worms were actually mentioned in the book too, according to a friend of mine, but only in passing.

Ok, looking it up, I the books only say tere were lots of bats on the Goblin's side, nothing about them being ridden. And the were-worms seems to have been in early drafts of the hobbit, but not in the published version.

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Were-worms
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by Udwin »

Nonononononono. Goblins do Not ride bats!

"'Alas! it has come more swiftly than I guessed. The Goblins are upon you! Bolg of the North is coming. O Dain! whose father you slew in Moria. Behold! the bats are above his army like a sea of locusts. They ride upon wolves and Wargs are in their train!'"
"Soon actual darkness was coming into a stormy sky; while still the great bats swirled about the heads and ears of elves and men, or fastened vampire-like on the stricken."

Note in the book that the army is made up entirely of northern goblins (led by Bolg), wolves/wargs, and a cloud of sun-shielding bats. No half-trolls, hill-trolls, or artillery-trolls, much less burrowing shrews and worms or whatever.

Also, I'm assuming this line from Bilbo is the sandworm 'reference':
"...I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert."
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by Manveruon »

Yep, that's the reference. Thanks Udwin. Anyway, I guess the bats were in fact in the book. Okay. And yeah, there was that reference to the were-worms, but I could have done without the giant mountain-burrowing-worm-things, considering I'm pretty sure that's not what Tolkien had in mind.
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by Manveruon »

Also, I take HUGE exception to how all three of these Hobbit films seem to want to draw a firm distinction between "goblins" and "orcs." There IS NO distinction, PJ. At least, not so hard and fast of one as you seem to assume.
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by Peter Remling »

I wasn't keen on either of the previous Hobbit films, so I'll wait until it comes out on video.
I can suspend belief only so far.
All these "Indiana Jones" chase scenes just seem ridiculous.
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by Ringulf »

LaLaLaLa I don't see this I can't hear you LaLaLa(eyes shut and fingers in ears)

(I am going to see it tonight) :mrgreen:
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by Beornmann »

The chase scenes, the Black Arrow's and Bard's mis-representation, and the far-too numerous add-ons pushed me away. I have no desire to see this. I disavow it's existence and consider these non-canonical, ...except the The Song of The Lonely Mountain scene, which I thought was very moving.
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by Manveruon »

I'll repeat what I said above: what we need is a really good fan-edit.

There is already a "purist edition" of the Lord of the Rings films out there, which I heard pleased a lot of Tolkien fans because it omitted a lot of the wacky-Peter-Jacksonisms (like all the dwarf jokes), but I never did see it. I do have some issues with the Two Towers, and considerably more with the Return of the King, but overall I thought the Trilogy was beautifully handled. Fellowship will forever be one of my favorite films of all time. Obviously the Hobbit movies don't measure up - even to RotK - but I will say that they're not nearly as cringe-inducingly-bad as the Star Wars prequels... so that's something. Still, I believe that if someone really good got ahold of the Hobbit movies and took a proverbial machete to them, they could deliver something that's, if not quite on the level of Fellowship, at least as good as Return of the King. There's plenty of good material in the Hobbit trilogy, there's just also a lot of garbage that needed to be left on the cutting room floor (or better yet, not filmed at all).
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by Rifter »

Ok spoilers(from the film anyway) lie ahead

Things I had issues with, the above mentioned changes and other which I hope with the extended edition will have answers. Things such as after Gandalf is rescued from Dol Guldar where he gets a new staff and did he snatch up Glamdring on the way out?

The confrontation with Smaug....That could have ended the second film for the amount of time that took.

Digital Orcs and Goblins...though the way Goblins are talked about it sounds like 100 Goblins and doesn't\t really have that army number I'm used to seeing and hearing from PJ's films past. My wife thought the bats were the 5th army so shows how much they were used. Also again trolls and earth worms....things also people might say \hey in 60 odd years why don't they just use those tunnels to travel to Mordor?'...there it is

Rhadaghast and his and Beorn's cameo in the battle.....why bother having them at all?

Legolas....seems to get new elf abilities each film and each one become just a bit too much for me. Faster then a falling walkway, More spy jumping on dwarves heads then a frog, able to leap trolls, stairs with shields and Olaphants in single shots.....he's not in the book like that so if your going to show him make it mean something like Frodo's scene in AUJ.

The simple non closure of a lot of it. Thorrin, Fili, Kili....no funerals seen, no dialogue about the fate of the mountain or Dale...the elves and Men...stuff that should be said whether it was in the book or not. Not just pop Gandalf and Bilbo go back home now. See ya. Bye

CGI Orcs, Goblins and such.......I really miss seeing people in suits....I'll take avoiding any of the Urak Hai or Orcs from LOTR then any scary designed Orcs and Goblins here. Why?...They're real most of the time

Plot points that needed to be spoken more of such as the gems/ necklace Thranduril is looking for and why.

Things I liked were capped off with one word. Gandalf. While I have issues with the new films I love love love seeing Ian as Gandalf. He just was the perfect man for it. His eyes, nose hair, poise and speech whether the scene is a bad one or not, there he is and it's like ...wow. The scene with he and Bilbo cleaning the pipe and at the end were my favs. No cgi really, no new plot points or hidden things, just Bilbo and Gandalf and that's where I sat back and said THIS is the Hobbit. Simple, clean.

Martin and Ian as Bilbo. Martin really makes you smile more at Ian's performance in LOTR. You just know how spry and wily he was and see the effect the ring has on him more especially the Bilbo face change in Rivendell. The loving loyal Hobbit we see here tries to fight that feeling the ring has on him especially near that end scene. I loved the casting of him as Bilbo and liked his acting even if lines and scenes were changed

The fact that the whole trilogy is remembered by old Bilbo in between his intro in LOTR on his birthday. You can got right into LOTR and know where you are.

The last goodbye. Merry himself sings it and out of the three songs for this trilogy it's my fav next to Neil Flynn's Misty Mountains version. Howard Shore I thought wrote music as well as the previous trilogy and if one were to listen to all 6 soundtracks it should feel like one solid story...even John Williams had trouble lining up prequel SW music to his OT versions imo.

Strider gets a shout out.

The acting. I thought all the cast perform well. Oddly I don't find issues with the performers, just the cgi and changes to things. I even liked Tauriel.

I do enjoy the HD film even if at times the speed is a little off. I would have liked to have seen LOTR the same way if I could.

Overall I'll say 3 out of 5. Not nearly as close as his LOTR films because I felt that trilogy was a more tangible set of films and I just didn't see this on these ones. I view it as it's a kids book and maybe the aim was to market it at kids more...hence very little blood and almost none on the weapons....really? Are you on PBS? or an IMAX screen?

I like to think that the books are the truth and nothing but the truth but the LOTR and Hobbit trilogy's are more of a recall by say someone who was there so things are fuzzy or changed or missing because maybe old Bilbo and Sam are a little fogy on things now. Just my two cents.

I loved going back to middle earth and will miss the fact that there will be no Disney purchase and new film possibilities :) BUT am glad at least a lot of the same crew were on the films so it does line up as a 6 story deal somewhat well. I did want to do a shout out to the battle with Elrond, Galadrial, Rhadagahst, Saurman and Gandalf. I felt like that could have indeed been one to the prologue scenes from LOTR. These are just my thoughts and people may have different ones. To be honest...I was just happy to go on another adventure because when we were kids and dreamed of Dragons and Hobbits and Rangers....in our tech world...this and GOT maybe as close as a lost of us get to doing it anymore
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Re: 'k It's out.. wha'cha think?

Post by Ringulf »

Manveruon wrote:Those three movies have plenty of great material for a really solid, 3-hour fan-edit. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever that they needed to be drawn out into 3 films. Ludicrous.

Also - spoiler alert...

War bats? Sand worms? Really? REALLY?
I pretty much agree with you Manveruon, It was enjoyable with a certain amount of disconnect. I think Jackson cheapened alot of meaningful things and exploited so many nonsensicle aspects, but at least we now know why Legalos was such a Bitch...he had "Mommy issues" Well there you go all is now justified with those two lines about Mom, you see now I can forgive the whole flashy flippy impossible gravity defying performance that should never have been! (though for all that the charge to go befreind Aragorn did make the whole Strider/Legolass long standing relationship, even though he was a Woodelf and not of Rivendell more plausible.)

But at this point and until I see it again Billy Connolly and Billy Boyd saved the movie for me, Hell yeah the armored Ram brigade! I just keep asking myself in stunned amazement One question...

A Freekin' Bear Bomb???? That's it Really? :shock:
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
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