WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.

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Elleth
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WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.

Postby Elleth » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:29 pm

Splitting this off owl's topic since I don't want to take it completely over. Normally I don't like slavishly copying WETA stuff, but since this was a quick / easy project to do when I'm brain-dead after work and not good for anything else - and there's apparently a number of people out there who want them - I thought I'd go ahead and duplicate a couple of the film buckles. I'm not bothering with the Boromir Shield Strap / Faramir Sword Belt buckle since at least two folks are already on that one - I'm just doing the Faramir Quiver Buckle and the Boromir Surcoat Buckle (what I've come to call the "Gondor Kit Buckle" since it kept showing up on all sorts of things)

I'm dumping my research / progress notes into this thread so those that come later have less work to do. :)

That little "kit buckle" is also over the place - Aragorn's quiver, Faramir's cloak and Boromir's surcote we already knew: it's also on Pippin's little belt bag in Minas Tirith. Probably elsewhere, but that's all I've found so far.

I've never tried to actually copy something from photos before, and the lack of solid face-on photos makes getting angles right a challenge. Every photo is foreshortened in some tiny way or another, meaning none of the angles are *quite* right.
Nonetheless, a few are pretty close: I'm going to be using the right two composites from Boromir's surcoat as a base for the little buckle:

gondor-kit-buckle-instances.jpg
gondor-kit-buckle-instances.jpg (46.94 KiB) Viewed 342 times


I think the Aragorn quiver version is slightly different - unless I'm looking at it wrong, it seems to use a flatter / less arched bow. I could make both, I suppose.

Anyhow - once I actually started combing through references looking for the things, I was a little surprised just how common both are - especially the "Faramir Quiver Buckle" Virtually every Gondor character wearing a weapon uses that buckle somewhere. Background Rangers of Ithilien? Quiver, naturally. Second Age army of Elendil? Sword belt. Third Age defenders of Minas Tirith? Sword belt. Pippin? Fountain Guards? Sword belt. All of 'em. Very few good reference photos though so far.

gondor-long-buckle.jpg
gondor-long-buckle.jpg (41.76 KiB) Viewed 335 times



.. and buried in "Weapons and Warefare" is one tiny grainy picture of the back of that buckle, finally. Looks like they use two hefty rivets for it:

gondor-long-buckle-back.jpg
gondor-long-buckle-back.jpg (17.59 KiB) Viewed 333 times
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Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.

Postby Kortoso » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:16 pm

Elleth wrote:That little "kit buckle" is also over the place - Aragorn's quiver, Faramir's cloak and Boromir's surcote we already knew: it's also on Pippin's little belt bag in Minas Tirith. Probably elsewhere, but that's all I've found so far.


Very interesting discovery! In-universe, what would lead to that design being used by Gondorians, Halflings and Dunedain alike?
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Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.

Postby Elleth » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:42 pm

Oh - "un Universe" they're still all Gondorian artifacts - Pippin's pouch was given to him at the same time as the rest of his gear in Minas Tirith after he swears fealty to Denethor.
There's no discussion of how Aragorn's quiver came to have Gondorian buckles on it, but as Thorongil he served in Gondor years previously, so it's certainly possible he'd still have some minor durable bits of gear from the experience.
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Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.

Postby Guillem Clapés » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:46 pm

Kortoso wrote:Very interesting discovery! In-universe, what would lead to that design being used by Gondorians, Halflings and Dunedain alike?


The Gondorian and Dúnedain cultures both have a common ancestor in Númenor, so it makes sense they would be closely related in design and style. And of the Halflings, only Pippin wears this style of buckle on his clothing and gear, which has been provided by the Gondorian Citadel Guard.

EDIT: Seems I was too slow in writing this!
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Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.

Postby Elleth » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:46 pm

ooookay - progress! The models for the smaller "kit buckle" is complete, with both a "Faramir/Boromor" clasp variant and a flatter-bowed "Aragorn Quiver" variant. Both use posts-with-holes for attachment. My original models also had a fitted back plate, but that would add around $20 per piece, and I think most folk would rather cut their own out of sheet stock rather than pay that big a premium.

I'm about to order one of each in steel to give them a try. Anyone who wants one but doesn't want to wait on a review... no promises. :)
I'm not going to make them public until I verify they're good.

(removed outdated links)

Finally, I could really use some sanity checking on scale.

I based the sizing of both buckles on these pictures:
lotr-buckle-sizing.jpg
lotr-buckle-sizing.jpg (43.06 KiB) Viewed 247 times



... assuming they used the same base, and that the strap of Aragorn's quiver was 1" wide.
That makes the "shield" portion 1.22" wide (note how it overhangs the straps a touch) and the bows 1.97" (flat/Aragorn) and 1.72" (bowed/Boromir) at their widest points. I'm concerned that may be a skosh to big, but I'm not positive. What do you guys think?


EDIT.... yeah, if we assume Boromir's swordbelt is 2" across, I think my buckles are a bit oversized. Updates soon.
Last edited by Elleth on Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.

Postby Elleth » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:41 pm

Here's an attempted re-scale. New scale shown against a 1", 3/4", and 2" strap. Old scale are the larger size:
Pretty sure this is about right - any thoughts?

lotr-buckle-sizing-2.jpg
lotr-buckle-sizing-2.jpg (26.65 KiB) Viewed 225 times


I certainly like this size better for the clasps - they feel better for the Faramir cloak closure at this size as well.

Assuming all the buckles use the same base however, It would mean Aragorn's quiver strap is a skosh under an inch I think - maybe 7/8 or so? It would still be a wider strap 3/4" still of course. (Actually I assume it was made to metric dimensions by WETA, but since I think in inches... :p )

Alternately, it could be the "Aragorn" buckle is just bigger all around than the "Boromor/Faramir" clasps.



Assuming this is correct I'll need to tweak a couple things to keep the pin size (and pin hole size) usable and the model printable, but that's fairly quick.

The big "Faramir Quiver" buckle won't be much longer either. At least the scale there is easier to make out.
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Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.

Postby Elleth » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:35 am

Okay, the small buckles are finalized. Manv helped me with scaling, and I think we've got it.

There are two versions - one with a rounder bow like Boromir's surcote clasp, and one with a flatter bow like Aragorn's quiver buckle. Each is available in steel (several color options), as well as cast metals (bronze/brass/silver). The cast versions will have a much cleaner surface, but are more expensive. I've also made the plate portion available on its own.

Steel versions of each have (nominal) 1/16 holes to run wire or thread through for fastening in place: cast versions can be mushroomed out just like historical buckles. Cast ones also have the option of a backplate, which is too thin to print in steel (not that I think it's cost effective to order)

I've ordered one of each type in steel, and will post pictures when they're in hand. If you don't want to wait:


Round Bow / Faramir Cloak Clasp, Steel
Round Bow / Faramir Cloak Clasp, Cast
Round Bow / Faramir Cloak Clasp, Cast with backplate


Flat Bow / Aragorn Quiver Buckle, Steel
Flat Bow / Aragorn Quiver Buckle, Cast
Flat Bow / Aragorn Quiver Buckle, Cast with backplate

"Kit Buckle" plate, Steel
"Kit Buckle" plate, Cast
"Kit Buckle" plate, Cast, with backplate






The larger "Faramir Quiver Buckle" and associated plate (used on "Boromir's Bag") will be up in a few more days I think.
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Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.

Postby Elleth » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:03 pm

And the large "Faramir Quiver" buckle is now finalized. Due to printing limitations on Shapeway's side, it's only available in steel, and without a backplate:

Faramir Quiver Buckle

The baseplate is easier to print, and available in steel or cast metals (the latter with an optional backplate, but again I don't think it's worth the premium):

Faramir Quiver Buckle Baseplate, Steel
Faramir Quiver Buckle Baseplate, Cast
Faramir Quiver Buckle Baseplate, Cast w/backplate

I've ordered the buckle in steel, and will show off a picture once it arrives.
Assuming everything looks good, all make all the above links public at that time.

Finally done!
Now to return to all the *other* things I've promised people for ages.
So much to do - onward!!
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Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.

Postby theowl » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:48 pm

You're a hero! Thank you!
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Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.

Postby Elleth » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:15 pm

wooo!

All three buckles just shipped! I should be able to show them off by Monday or so.

Cautiously optimistic. :mrgreen:
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Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.

Postby theowl » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:14 pm

Mine says it will be here Wednesday. I'm excited.

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