Getting started, old and new - kit photos in the woods

[Elleth]

I'm only just getting started on the Tolkienesque trekking end of things, but there's a decent amount of crossover with the 18th century frontier stuff I've loved for ages. What follows is by no means perfect - it's an amalgum of off-the-shelf medievalish stuff and pretty good colonial stuff. I wouldn't call it any more than a starting place on the road, but but since others have been kind enough to post what they've been using, I'll share to.

1. Everything ready to go -



Right now, the commercial quiver goes on first, then the hand-sewn knapsack. Coustille (eket?) gets pushed through a belt, and the bedroll carried over one shoulder "purse" style.

This is NOT a good system. Before I added the quiver, it worked pretty well - I had the knapsack on first, then the bedroll either over one shoulder bandolier-style, or over both tumpline-style - alternating as one shoulder or the other got tired. Adding the quiver to the mix through everything to heck - the knapsack pushes the quiver up too high to easily get to my arrows (and they're now high enough to catch on branches as I duck under trees!). There's also no real good way to carry the bedroll any more. I'm not certain how to proceed there. I like how Greg lashed his quiver to a pack - it makes everything easy - but I've had so many lectures from friend in the service about line 1 / line 2 / line 3 gear that I don't think I want to follow that path. It's gonna take some trial and error to figure this out.

Also, I was reminded again that little sword needs a real carriage. A largish knife in a hide sheath can ride okay in a belt or sash, but the weight distribution and slick scabbard just don't let it work well here. If I've not got a GOOD solution worked out for next time, I think I'll at least try to throw together a decent frog for it.

Finally - not shown is a ravenswood "Sherwood" glove on one hand, and a "Berlin" 3-finger archery glove on the other. The Sherwood isn't really thick enough to keep a botched loose from stinging, but it's awesome for saving the top of my hand from the fletching cuts. The 3-finger glove might work better in the summer - in the still kind of chill air, I've found the insulation on three fingers leaves my pinky feeling extra cold. A minor quibble, but I think I might look for a decent set of deerhide gloves and see how those work instead.


Now- on with the show - my colonial stuff has a pretty "heart" motif for my closures - here's the end of the bedroll strap -


... and the knapsack (this manner of closure also lets you stuff a little extra in there if you need the room!)


The knapsack is a pretty typical colonial design - "haversack" type linen body, handsewn with linen thread - and doubled-over linen straps. Carries pretty well!

On to the innards! I didn't repack before this trip, so my bag just had in it what was present before our last move -


Hand woven white wool blanket inside an oilcloth groundcloth, all the ties stowed in the bottom corner.
The other innards include -

A. This is a project in process. Even for my colonial frontier stuff I was trying to move away from stamped metal tins for the little things, going for a more "backwoods improvised gear" look. I cut up some low-grade cowhorn into short lengths, boiled until it got soft and jammed it in a vice to flatten it out. You also see my half-finished plugs. Eventually I'll mount the plugs, anchor with wooden pegs, and seal with pitch. These will be for little things that need to be either a little more waterproofing or might otherwise have little prickly barbs sticking out of cloth bags - fishhooks and such.


B. Speaking of fishooks - typical forged hook and waxed linen (or hemp? can't recall) line -

Each of those skeins of line has a hook fastened to it, buried in the middle so it won't stick. In the top left you see my swoopy new elfin arrow alongside my 3 rivers ones, and in the top right the somewhat crudely sewn leather case to my -

C. My toiletry set. Horn comb, wood and bristle hairbrush, and a piece of antique style silvered glass mirror set into a chunk of walnut -

For a more iron age/middle earth take, I'll be replacing the mirror at some point with a polished silver or brass disc, but this will do for now. Speaking of carving things out of a chunk of walnut -

D. I took a standard sharpening stone and set it likewise into a piece of wood.

I've tried gluing the stone in place with hide glue, but I'm not terrible good with that stuff yet, so it's a tossup which half of the wood case comes off when I open it up. Also a nice little knife from Curt Lyles (I LOVE his work!) and sheath I made from thin leather, dipped in molten beeswax, formed to shape, and polished up. I'm never going back to modern leather dyes and finishers - I LOVE the molten wax approach for little sheaths and similar projects!

Also visible in the overall shot is a tin cup which replaced my corn boiler for period reasons, but has not yet actually seen a fire (I need to get rid of that shiny!) - and a carved wooden spoon, some pieces of soap, and lots of little drawstring and slit pouches for organizing things. The duplication (and lack of food!) is just 'cause I stuffed random history stuff into my knapsack for a move, but I have several extra of the little bags around all the time no matter what - they're great for keeping everything organized. One fellow I knew embroidered contents labels on his pouches, and I'm thinking I may one day do the same.

My secondary flint/steel is in a tin in the top right, but I'm afraid the primary was back at home in a leather shoulder pouch, along with -

My cornboiler set, leather canteen, corn wallets, and a little medieval knife.

So that's that so far. Next step - getting my leather working table set up so I do some decent girdling, and make up proper belts and carriages and such. More... eventually.

Hope it was fun!

[robinhoodsghost]

Nice kit Ranger Elleth....looks like your ready for a sojourn into the woods.

[Udwin]

Excellent pictures and descriptions! I had the same frustration with figuring how to carry my kit when I switched from a haversack to a proper knapsack; trial and error is the only solution.
New folks would do well to study your gear, Elleth--the handmade pieces give the whole setup an air of authenticity. Now you just have to get out in the woods and get some honest dirt and wear on it all!

[Straelbora]

Great looking gear. Makes me itch to get out into the woods.

[RikJohnson]

<<a piece of antique style silvered glass mirror set into a chunk of walnut - For a more iron age/middle earth take, I'll be replacing the mirror at some point with a polished silver or brass disc, but this will do for now.>>

When I was stationed TDY in Florida at Eglin AFB, I saw this huge pile of mirror-polished brass slabs. They had purchased them to make attractive name plates but found that they could never find a way to make the names readable.

So I 'stole' a few sheets and cut them into mirrors.
One is set in wood, another in leather. Theyare HEAVY but work well and never crack.

The Egyptians used polish brass morrors to reflect light into their tombs so they souldn't poison their workers with torches. So they work very well.

[Greg]

A very good starting point! Far more well along than when I started off, for certain.

I can understand not wanting to strap the quiver to a pack...I've recently begun stumbling around with that setup since the strap configuration on my quiver changed with the new quiver design, and doesn't strap on like it did last time. I can strap it on still, but the arrows are hopelessly out of reach now, so I'll have to figure out something else for that. Quivers are an eternal source of trouble for many of us, I think, because ultimately, a back quiver is a hunting tool for individual outings, and we're all trying to plan out old-fashioned hybrid backpacking/combat setups. Not an easy combination.

I can make a pretty educated guess as to what you're inferring by line 1/2/3 kit, though I've not heard the terminology before and I'm not sure what order it goes in...something along the line of most-least critical and/or most-least disposable when switching from travel to combat situations..?

In short...I'd like to hear more. Care to elaborate on the subject, while I try to work out my quiver troubles? Again, it all looks great.

[Elleth]

Thanks all! Last fall was horrid for getting out, but this year is shaping up to be much better. Onward!

Rik - neat! I'd love to see a picture.

Greg - Sure! I've never served, but I picked up the terms from military friends, so I assume that's where it comes from. Idea is this -

"First Line" is the rudiments you don't go outside without - fire kit, small knife, etc. Or think of the belt you saw on all the officer types in the old WWII era movies - a pistol, knife, canteen and little pouch with first aid kit on it. The very basics. Lightweight, always with you - you might even sleep with it on or attached to your body somehow, so you're never, ever separated from it.

"Second Line" is where a soldier's (or ranger's) stuff comes in. In the modern world, a rifle and magazines. Maybe weapons cleaning supplies, maybe spare ammunition for crew weapons. That sort of thing. The one thing you grab if your camp is surprised.

"Third Line" is all the heavier/bulkier stuff that makes being outside something more than a survival exercise. Pack with sleeping bag, tarp, ground cloth - comparative luxuries that you really want, but might have to ditch if you suddenly need to move fast.


So in the "Ranger" world, the same concept might work out to -

"First Line" - tinderbox, small knife, maybe a waterskin or canteen depending on environment. Perhaps a hatchet or dirk/eket or the like.
"Second Line" - bow, quiver, spare strings, fletchings, or heads. Maybe some glue or an arrow straightener. A sword or spear, perhaps. Shield or armor maybe.
"Third Line" - knapsack or bedroll, blanket, cookpot, spare turnshoes and hose/socks, salt from the shire...


My current brainstorming is something like -
"First Line" - Small byknife on the eket scabbard, along with a little pouch for a tinderbox and the like - all on a single woven shoulder strap that can picked up as a single "out the door" item for a quick jaunt.

"Second Line" - A quiver with attached pouch for maintenance tools.

"Third Line" - still brainstorming for the most appropriate carriage, but some of what you see above will find its way into it.

All that said, I'm no more a soldier in my woods wanderings than I am in real life. To the extent I have a "persona" at all, it's more "woods wanderer who'd sooner go down fighting than die begging if cornered" than "master of the wilds hunting foul things in dark places." So no heavy war gear for me.

[RikJohnson]

I can understand not wanting to strap the quiver to a pack...I've recently begun stumbling around with that setup since the strap configuration on my quiver changed with the new quiver design, and doesn't strap on like it did last time. I can strap it on still, but the arrows are hopelessly out of reach now, so I'll have to figure out something else for that. Quivers are an eternal source of trouble for many of us, I think, because ultimately, a back quiver is a hunting tool for individual outings, and we're all trying to plan out old-fashioned hybrid backpacking/combat setups. Not an easy combination.

That is the conundrum.
I was talking to Michael Pare' at the opening to one of his S&S films. He asked me the best way to carry a sword and liked my rapier hanging from a baldric.
I told him that there was NO best way. you can carry a sword for use or for travel but not both. iot just gets in the way.
So I tend to do the 'ninja' thing which is to carry my sword over my back when I travel, then IF I get into a situation where I may need to use it, I switch it to my side as it is IMPOSSIBLE to draw a sword from your back unless you have a special sheath that keeps the blade exposed and all.

My thoughts are to cap the quiver and strap it to the backpack, then switch it to my belt when I think I may need it.
no means perfect but doable.

Like when I slung my M-16 while moving then, carried it when we expected trouble.

[RikJohnson]

>>Rik - neat! I'd love to see a picture.

I actually have a weekend off and am hoping to a) finish some projects and b) take pics of my projects.

It seems that the last few months I have been too busy. From a week Kayaking the Colorado to a weekend building a gazebo to…. Hint: never let people know that you are a civil engineer or a survival-freak. People want you to acompany them on camping trips to keep them safe and comfortable or they want toyu to repair their houses……
So last weekend I was at a boating festival giving my talks on “home-made camping & boating gear” and “how to modify your boat”. Next weekend I am doing the Lake Clean-up. This weekend I actually have time to do yard-sales and swap meets for materials and can take pics of my finished projects.


>>"First Line" is the rudiments you don't go outside without - fire kit, small knife, etc. Or think of the belt you saw on all the officer types in the old WWII era movies - a pistol, knife, canteen and little pouch with first aid kit on it. The very basics. Lightweight, always with you - you might even sleep with it on or attached to your body somehow, so you're never, ever separated from it.

>>All you really need is a means to cut and make fire. Everything else is gravy, but a first-aid kit, some snacks and a canteen help make life easier.
I keep mine next to my pillow with either an old enfield bayonet or a CS ‘cutlass’ machete for when I hear that ‘strange noise’ and the dog refuses to leave my sleeping bag.
But I never slept with it on my person. Never understood how that could be as most people toss-&-turn all night.

>>"Second Line" - A quiver with attached pouch for maintenance tools.

I keep a spear-head in my quiver. Yes, it’s heavy but useful to keep handy.
Being a gear-freak (aka my day-pack is 40# and my weekend pack is down to 172#) I try to keep a few extra straps/thongs on my quiver. One at the bottom holds my spear-head, the one at the top holds my minimal fletch-kit (see other posts for that).
I also attack a small knife sheath to my sword scabbard near the throat so if I only have my sword, I also have a knife at hand.

>>All that said, I'm no more a soldier in my woods wanderings than I am in real life. To the extent I have a "persona" at all, it's more "woods wanderer who'd sooner go down fighting than die begging if cornered" than "master of the wilds hunting foul things in dark places." So no heavy war gear for me.

Here is a hint. If you stand alone against overwhelming odds, you will die and the enemy will continue to advance without losing more than a minute.
BUT, if you run away, you can be a goreilla(sp) and harass them so badly that their advance is disrupted. You just have to be smart enough to know when to stand and when to run.

[Straelbora]

[quote="RikJohnson"]

I actually have a weekend off and am hoping to a) finish some projects and b) take pics of my projects.

Hint: never let people know that you are a civil engineer or a survival-freak. People want you to acompany them on camping trips to keep them safe and comfortable or they want toyu to repair their houses……

Reminds me, years ago, when I was young and single. My brother invited me on an annual river rafting trip in upper Michigan. The group that went every year mostly drank all day and night and were more the kind of guys who tinkered with cars than the types who knew anything about woodcraft. One year, the weather was cloudy, cool with intermittent rain. At the midway point, where we normally stopped and barbequed, everyone was wet and miserable. I got a fire going, and the suburban superheroes kept throwning wet leaves, etc. on it, smothering it. So I walked off into the woods and built another fire for myself. One by one, all the single women (and some of the girlfriends of the guys on the trip) ended up at my fire. We were sitting around warming up and roasting hotdogs and one of the women who was studying anthropology in college laughed even though no one had said anything. Someone asked her what was funny and she said, "And they wonder how one set of genes comes to dominate a gene pool. If civilization fell apart tomorrow, Buck here would have a harem in no time."


["Here is a hint. If you stand alone against overwhelming odds, you will die and the enemy will continue to advance without losing more than a minute."
BUT, if you run away, you can be a goreilla(sp) and harass them so badly that their advance is disrupted. You just have to be smart enough to know when to stand and when to run./quote]

My wife and I have had this conversation many times. We're both pretty stiff necked and wouldn't do well under any kind of invading conquerors. Both of our mothers seem to be the types that cringe with fear before even the smallest display of political power. My wife is from China, where there's such a clear record of invasions that she's thought about this a lot. Do you submit and insure that you survive to pass down your genes, or do you fight and risk death? Our mothers aside, we think that we're the types to fight - as you said, guerrilla fighting. I do know that on my father's side, my family lived in the village that was the first line of defense to protect Poland from any invasions coming in from the south and west, and were there for centuries. And my wife's grandmother had a group of Japanese soldiers pound on the gate to the family compound during the Japanese occupation of China. They were demanding entry, essentially with the intention of looting and raping. She opened the door in the gate and apparently at least one spoke Chinese because she berated them all, telling them they were bringing shame and dishonor on their parents and ancestors and that they should get the hell out of there and behave. She slammed the door and damned if they didn't leave!

[Greg]

"First Line" is the rudiments you don't go outside without - fire kit, small knife, etc. Or think of the belt you saw on all the officer types in the old WWII era movies - a pistol, knife, canteen and little pouch with first aid kit on it. The very basics. Lightweight, always with you - you might even sleep with it on or attached to your body somehow, so you're never, ever separated from it.

"Second Line" is where a soldier's (or ranger's) stuff comes in. In the modern world, a rifle and magazines. Maybe weapons cleaning supplies, maybe spare ammunition for crew weapons. That sort of thing. The one thing you grab if your camp is surprised.

"Third Line" is all the heavier/bulkier stuff that makes being outside something more than a survival exercise. Pack with sleeping bag, tarp, ground cloth - comparative luxuries that you really want, but might have to ditch if you suddenly need to move fast.

I track this much better now. Makes total sense, and is a great way to describe it, as well as organize one's gear for greatest effectiveness. I daresay that a good number of the members of this lovely little forum already follow aspects of this, to some extent. I know for a fact that I've got a good, solid First line [my portmanteau belt, which is slept in and never taken off, containing my fire kit, hard rations, trail food, alongside my water bottle and soon-to-be seax] and a relatively well--thought-out second line, which is in the process of changing due to some new blades rolling in, etc., but now that it's been described as a separate entity that really oughta function independently of the first two, my third line may need some changing once again, if only to separate the backpack from the quiver so the quiver can be worn the way it was designed for use at all times, and the third line can be ditched at a moment's notice without reducing my combat capabilities. Interesting discussion. Lots of thoughts...hopefully progress will follow..

Thanks!

[RikJohnson]

Reminds me, years ago, when I was young and single. My brother invited me on an annual river rafting trip in upper Michigan. The group that went every year mostly drank all day and night and were more the kind of guys who tinkered with cars than the types who knew anything about woodcraft. One year, the weather was cloudy, cool with intermittent rain. At the midway point, where we normally stopped and barbequed, everyone was wet and miserable. I got a fire going, and the suburban superheroes kept throwning wet leaves, etc. on it, smothering it. So I walked off into the woods and built another fire for myself. One by one, all the single women (and some of the girlfriends of the guys on the trip) ended up at my fire. We were sitting around warming up and roasting hotdogs and one of the women who was studying anthropology in college laughed even though no one had said anything. Someone asked her what was funny and she said, "And they wonder how one set of genes comes to dominate a gene pool. If civilization fell apart tomorrow, Buck here would have a harem in no time."

Unfortunatly, from personal experience, the opposite happens.
All through school, the women would date the dumb-jocks who cheated on them, come to me to do their homework ,then run away back to the jock.
When camping, the women LOVE having em around because I can make a fire and shelter, repair their tent and gear, bring the 'necessities' like clothesline, soap, etc...
THEN after eatinjg my food and using my gear, they'd ALWAYS return to the jerks who were getting drunk around the campfire that stinks of urine.

Despite what they say, Women are not interested in the nice guy who holds hands, is loyal and makes their life easy, they are interested i nthe flashy guy with good looks, nice clothes and a good line.
As to many women said when they dumped me for a jerk, "you are a wonderful man. you are a great lover, a good husband, a caring provider. Any woman would be proud to have you for a husband... but I'm breaking up with you because bad boys do it good!"
Cannot count the time women would come to me to 'do for them' and run away immediatly afterwards.
Deliana asks me to repair her roof, then rush home because her bf is coming over and she needs to get ready for him.
Julie dumps me for some jerk because I am not 'macho' enough, then asks me to build a gazebo for the guy she dumped me for.
etc, etc, etc.

I wish it were as you say, the harim thing, but every one of those women ran back their men when they got sleepy.

[Rifter]

Nice kit there mate, I really like when guys take all these items out, I generally only take a knife, sword, skinning knife and bow with quiver,

[Taurinor]

I really like the horn containers - I've been trying to figure out a way to carry things that need some waterproofing without resorting to little tins.

[RikJohnson]

I really like the horn containers - I've been trying to figure out a way to carry things that need some waterproofing without resorting to little tins.

I like the horn containers too.
I've made a few wooden ones but mostly rely on whatever brass boxes I can find.
Boiling then compressing them is a great idea!
Good thing I am hitting the swap meet tonight!