Let's Talk about Legs!

A place for pics and tutorials on making Soft Kit (clothing and accessories like buckles and cloak pins).

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Manveruon
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Manveruon »

BRILLIANT! I'm loving them so far! Great progress!
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Elleth
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Elleth »

Well this is just turning into the project from heck - just about every step I have a false start or two. This time it was with the waistband. Part of the challenge I've set myself is using just the little bit of fabric I had as efficiently as possible, just as someone working before machine-loomed fabric would have to do. Therefore the waistband is a lot more pieced than I originally intended: but it actually works quite well I think.
merf-trousers-01-waistband-components.jpg
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merf-trousers-02-waistband-complete.jpg
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To fasten the trousers, I'll have kyrtle-like rows of eyelets on each hip. That will allow a fair amount of adjustment - and it leaves the front free for some simple embroidery. :)



Onward!
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Manveruon
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Manveruon »

Brilliant! I'm so excited to see your progress! That waistband looks like a total nightmare though, haha. If I follow a similar route for my trousers, I will probably opt to go with something a bit simpler. Still, I absolutely admire your dedication and resourcefulness here! Fabric conservation makes a lot of good sense.
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Elleth
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Elleth »

Still slogging through the project - but the end is in sight!

I finally finished the waistband. Rather than a continuous lace, I discovered that using points would be both much easier to wear *and* give me better adjustability. I still need to make some proper points with aiglets, but a bit of twisted linen cord serves the purpose well enough to know the idea will work.
merf-trousers-side-ties.jpg
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As you can see, there's a bit of elvish inspired embroidery on the front - I did that with the same linen thread I sewed the trousers with, but left off the wax and doubled the thread to get a bit more "poof" in the design. Were I to do it over, I think I'd go ahead and wax the thread before sewing anyhow, as I don't think it makes much difference and it's a *lot* less troublesome to sew that way:
merf-trousers-front-embroidery.jpg
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The next step is to trim and sew the stirrups at the bottom of the legs.. then (*gulp*) put the last several month's work into a dye bath of madder and walnut.

I should have done the dye step first, but at the time I didn't know a thing about it, so I figured I'd start somewhere familiar. As much time as I have in this project now though, I confess it will be a little bit intimidating making that first dunk.

Still - onward! :)
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caedmon
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by caedmon »

Wow, that is looking really good. SO eyeballing it I came up with this cutting pattern. Is this anything like what you used?
urtgard.png
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Elleth
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Elleth »

Thank you!

And that's really close - but the outside leg pieces (at least now) are straight rectangles, sized so as to go entirely around your calf.

(this has the possibility of making the hip/abdomen area overly poofy if you've got thick calves though)

I'm planning a complete writeup with a how-to once I'm done, but I have a drawing around here somewhere with the pattern pieces illustrated. I'll post it this weekend as a preview. :)

Oh - PS - the front and back panels of the waistband are a couple layers thick, and pieced in most places: so where you have "extra" you can place stacks of half-a-waistband.
Also the grain on the waistband panels runs the same direction as the legs at least on mine - though for many fabrics that won't make a difference.
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Manveruon
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Manveruon »

Awesome! I love how this is turning out! I'm excited to see the rest! Seems like a pretty straightforward pattern, for the most part (though I'm sure the trial and error that went into it didn't seem that way, heh).
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Elleth »

I'm way overwhelmed on other projects at the moment, but here's some tips that might help those that can't wait for the full writeup:

First, you're probably familiar with the plain old pajama pant pattern. It's basically just two stretched out hexagonal pieces, with an optional gusset in the crotch area.
These are about the easiest pants you'll ever make, and are the best place to get a good idea where to start:
merf-pants-sample-pajama-pattern.jpg
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What we're doing instead is assembling the same thing out of rectangles by piecing the legs. We then gather the waistband to get our more classic pants:
merf-pants-sample-irony-pattern.jpg
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What you will quickly discover though is that as simple as the pattern is, getting the proportions right is a trickier thing that it looks. A couple tips:

1. The width of the rectangular leg pieces should be sized to be just large enough to accommodate your calf with a bit of wiggle room. Note: if you taper the shin portion to your ankle, any slit you make for your stirrups will not be straight in line with the grain of the fabric. This will make cutting that portion much more difficult. That's my last step: when I have it complete, I'll have more notes for that part.

2. The front and back "angled" pieces don't have to be the same width: mine are about an inch wider in back than in the front. The relative sizes of your tuckus and tummy come into play here. Don't make them TOO different though, or the "hypotenuse" part of the angled piece will be too different to easily piece front and back panels together. You'll be able to make up a little difference using the crotch gusset - so you have some wiggle room, just don't get carried away.

3. The short vertical dimension of the angle piece is about the same as your typical pants rise: the long dimension should reach from your waistband to a couple inches below your knee (give or take). You may wish to assemble the trousers with way more length than you'll need both in the ankle and waistband directions, then just move the completed part up and down on your body until you get the right diameter at your knee. Then mark where you want the waistband to be. Once the waistband is complete, you can put the mostly-done trousers on, move around in them, and place your foot stirrups perfectly.

4. Cut the back portion of the trousers a bit longer than the front: around .5" - 1.5" should be enough. This gives you enough room in the seat while reducing the poofiness in your belly. A little difference goes a long way here, so pin first and be careful before getting out the scissors.


The waistband is kind of complicated: I'll post more notes on that when I can.

More when I have the chance to write in detail - it'll be a bit I'm afraid, but I've been taking lots of photos as I've gone along, so I can do a tutorial like the lasdhir post when it's ready.

(edited to clarify some points)
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Elleth
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Elleth »

After a long hiatus for some more urgent projects, back to the trousers!

I always knew when I got to the stirrups that it would take some experimentation: Urthgard (I believe) machine sewed his trousers, and left the foot openings around the stirrups unhemmed. That means there's no awkward lumps under the feet where fabric is doubled over for finishing.

In contrast, I hand-felled my trouser leg seam, and hemmed the foot openings: the result is a much more uneven stirrup under the foot: I knew it was an issue, but first quickly finished it as is simply to see if it would simply resolvable.

My trial stirrup to the left, Urthgard's to the right:
merf-trousers-stirrups-01.jpg
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The answer of course is that - as expected - my simple solution was totally unsatisfactory. Where the felled seam folds over into a hem there's a little "pea" of up to 12 layers of fabric! It really does feel like having a little nobbin of gravel right in the center of the foot. Clearly that wasn't wasn't going to work.

So instead I took some of the offcuts from making the stirrup in the first place, and pieced them together into rectangles (using a method not unlike the lasdir pouch body, just with no slit).
I then cut out the stirrup bottoms, hemmed off the cut ends, and edge-stitched the rectangles in to make a smooth foot. Much nicer:
merf-trousers-stirrups-02.jpg
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I may look at tapering the shins a bit with darts, but that could get tricky so I'm going to live with it as is for a week or so to decide.
Looking like it's going into the dyepot sometime between next weekend (if I don't tailor the shins) - to a month or so from now if I do.

Onward!
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Greg
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Greg »

Your stitching skills continue to amaze me.

What a project!
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Elleth
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Elleth »

OHMYGOSH.

FINALLY finished these darn things. I ran into a stumbling block last year and lay them aside for other projects.
I picked them back up after Christmas and just ran the last stitch a couple days ago. I'm writing up how I handled the calf area and will post shortly.

Come spring and decent weather outside - into the dyepot! :)
merf-trousers-complete-folded.jpg
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Taurinor »

OOOOO! I love the embroidery! Looking forward to seeing them dyed (with more pictures, I hope)!
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Manveruon
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Manveruon »

YESSSSSSSSS!!! So glad to see these coming along! And the embroidery is just wonderful! Can't wait to see the final result!

Also, is there any chance you could maybe sketch up a sort of pattern for that embroidery? The design is lovely, and I would love to potentially use it on something eventually, myself, with your permission.
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Elleth
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Elleth »

embroidery - sure thing! I thing my original pattern is long gone, but I'll draw up the design and post it.

Anyhow, the problem I ran into is basically this - I'd already cut my stirrup based on the center of the leg tube, centering on the seam - symmetry, right?
Well derp, the leg and foot aren't symmetrical- this put the stirrup way up in front of my heel.
Alternately, if I HAD cut the stirrup to match the heel, then the seam would be way out almost in front of my shin. This would make any tapering of the shin extra hard:
merf-trousers-finish-01a-stirrup-position-lbl.jpg
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What to do, what to do?

Well - I finally figured to just plow on ahead, and taper the leg to a tighter fit best I could.
First I put the pants on and set the stirrup in the correct position. I pinned up behind my calf and just let the front of the leg go for the moment.
NOTE how this pulls the leg back towards the rear, so the seam is no longer going straight down the leg!

Anyhow, I cut that wedge off along the pin line (plus seam allowance), and added a lacing placket. (If you've seen my lasdhir tutorial, the technique is virtually identical to what I used to finish off the center slit there.
Once I had the placket tacked down, I added lacing holes - seven pairs for the seven ships and seven stars, of course. ;)

I laced up the back of the legs with points, put the pants back on, and pinned up the front.
Cut off the front wedge like before (again, w/about 1/2" seam allowance) - and seamed the slit closed.
I then hemmed each raw edge back down to the trouser body. It gets weird at the top, so I kind of improvised there. Whew!
All done!
merf-trousers-finish-02c-trim-back-then-front-complete-lbl.jpg
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Elleth
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Re: Let's Talk about Legs!

Post by Elleth »

....and this is what it ended up looking like:
merf-trousers-calves-02-front.jpg
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merf-trousers-calves-02-back.jpg
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merf-trousers-calves-01-side.jpg
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MONSTER project. And the name fits - it's an incredible amount of fitting, fiddling and fine hand work to make the things... and probably about 6" of the plainest part will show between the tops of my boots and the bottom of my tunic.

Would I do it again? Honestly, probably not. The front seams are stylish, but I think a better approach is probably the thorsberg pattern - or even the simple two-hexagon pajama pant pattern I posted earlier.
I do REALLY like the waistband assembly though, and if I ever make another set of trousers, I'm sure I'll keep that setup.

In the meantime - I'll just say these pants were inspired by seeing some elf lord wearing something lovely, and struggling to copy them best I could with mere human craftsmanship.
After this though the rest of the walking kit should be easy. :)
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
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