A Quandary Over Buckles

A place for pics and tutorials on making Soft Kit (clothing and accessories like buckles and cloak pins).

Moderators: caedmon, Greg

User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2582
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Manveruon »

Unfortunately, the other issue I've discovered with this buckle is that it is just slightly too small. I have asked the maker if he can possibly size up the file slightly, but so far no word.
Maerondir Perianseron, also called “Mickel,” Halfling Friend - Ranger of the Misty Mountains
User avatar
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 2932
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Elleth »

For what it's worth, resizing a model in Shapeways is ridiculously easy - you don't even need to touch the model again. You just hit a "resize" button in the model admin screen. It does need to chug a bit, but it's a small task. He would need to know however the precise *outer* dimension along any one axis.

(Also looking at the pricing models, I don't think he's making a penny off you. Printed stainless gets expensive fast)

If he never resurfaces, I think I'll give it a whirl sometime later this year for giggles. It's still beyond my skill at the moment in the new app I'm using, but I think I could get there from here with a bit more work.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 2932
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Elleth »

O.
M.
G.

Shapeways is a total gamechanger guys:
merf-dunedain-belt-with-steel-buckle-print.jpg
merf-dunedain-belt-with-steel-buckle-print.jpg (116.59 KiB) Viewed 14157 times
That's a darkened steel printed buckle. It's not quite ready for release - I need to move the tongue bar a bit - but it came out shockingly good.
This is gonna be fun. :)
merf-buckle-hardware-test-prints.jpg
merf-buckle-hardware-test-prints.jpg (95.06 KiB) Viewed 14157 times
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
Udwin
Vendor
Posts: 794
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:00 pm
Location: central Kain-tuc-kee
Contact:

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Udwin »

Way cool! So, is that 3-D printed...metal? Or has it just been machined based on digital model? Neat either way, I'm just trying to wrap my head around these newfangled technologies. ; )
Personae: Aistan son of Ansteig, common Beorning of Wilderland; Tungo Brandybuck, Eastfarthing Bounder, 3018 TA; a native Man of the Greyflood, c.850 SA
User avatar
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 2932
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Elleth »

Udwin wrote:Way cool! So, is that 3-D printed...metal? Or has it just been machined based on digital model?
Printed: I think the idea is a laser melts metal dust to itself layer-by-layer. Wild kinda thing Feanor would dream up. ;)

I was expecting the buckle to have a lot of visible layers, like the metal stamp I got last year. Turns out nope - there's a touch there, but I think it'll all polish away fairly easily:
merf-metalprint-layers.jpg
merf-metalprint-layers.jpg (112.02 KiB) Viewed 14142 times
The one place I know it differs in form from something a blacksmith of Eriador could have made is that I think it's TOO perfect. I could imagine a blacksmith using a stamp of some kind to impress the area where the belt will go, then filing out the rest of the design around it: but that technique would leave a slight rounding along the bottom of the channel. Here the walls are mathematically, perfectly square to the sides.
merf-dunedain-buckle-underside.jpg
merf-dunedain-buckle-underside.jpg (163.37 KiB) Viewed 14142 times
No big deal, that part will be hidden anyway. And it's not like it won't get beaten and nicked up with use enough to look natural. :)





Neat either way, I'm just trying to wrap my head around these newfangled technologies. ; )
Oh absolutely - it's a weird age. This stuff is already old hat to the hipster kids I'm sure - it still leaves me kinda agog.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
caedmon
Balku'npâ
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:30 am
Location: Palmer Alaska

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by caedmon »

Elleth wrote:Printed: I think the idea is a laser melts metal dust to itself layer-by-layer. Wild kinda thing Feanor would dream up. ;)

I think it's a little different than that. And not really all that mysterious.

A normal 3d printer works like a cake decorator hooked to printer. You just squeeze hot plastic around in many continuous layers until you have your object.


3d Printed steel is the same process except you use a low temp melt glue and dust each layer with metal shavings. The next step is like lost styrofoam casting(like lost wax except you don't burn out the original first). You make an investment mold, bring it to heat and pour in bronze which burns out the glue and leaves the steel in place creating a bronze infused steel piece. Then it's polish, electro-plate (if you want a bronze/gold/silver/etc. finish) and deliver.
-Jack Horner

----------------------------
Impression: Cædmon Reedmace | bronze founder living in Archet, Breeland. c. 3017
User avatar
Mirimaran
Thangailhir
Posts: 2110
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Mirimaran »

Jeebus, that is just gorgeous! Definatlely a game changer and talk about being able to personalize kit and gear!

Ken
"Well, what are you waiting for? I am an old man, and have no time for your falter! Come at me, if you will, for I do not sing songs of dastards!"
User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2582
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Manveruon »

OKAY. Let me finally give this post the response it deserves! I keep getting distracted, but I finally sat down and read through the whole thing in great detail. SO...

First of all, let me say I LOVE BUCKLES. I don't know why, but I just have a really strong affinity for cool looking buckles, and I LOOOOVE finding ones for my various costumes, etc. Unfortunately, there does seem to be a rather severe dearth of really good ones online. Over the years I have amassed a pretty sizable collection of links to various craftspeople and retailers that offer cool, historical buckles, but all too often I find myself facing the same problem - there are good ones out there, but none that really seem *quite right* for the task at hand.

Going WAAAAAY back to the original post, Farodel: I think that large bronze Rus buckle would look great on your quiver. I actually have a very similar one from Viking Leathercrafts (http://www.vikingleathercrafts.com/1-1- ... uckle.html), and I'm planning on using it for a ranger belt in the near future (probably something to do double-duty as my trekking belt and also a belt for my planned Ithilien Ranger impression). The one you posted is slightly more pointed than mine, but very similar. I completely agree that it has a vaguely Numenorean look, and I feel the design also fits in quite well with the motifs we see throughout Gondor in the films. Also, I just happened upon this the other day while looking through the "Rangers of the North" Facebook page. Turns out they got one of their members who happens to be a jewler to make a buckle that's EXTREMELY similar to the one in the original post (which can also be seen on all of the Ithilien Rangers' quivers). Only trouble is, it likely wouldn't fit a 1.5 inch strap. Still, very very nice, and a pretty decent price, too: http://www.handmaderevolution.org/medie ... onal-plate
And here's a cool leafy-strap-end: http://www.handmaderevolution.org/medie ... f-belt-end
And even some neat oak-leaf fittings: http://www.handmaderevolution.org/medie ... lt-fitting
And finally, these cool double-heart fittings that remind me a bit of some of the Numenorean design motifs that have been discussed around here lately: http://www.handmaderevolution.org/medie ... lt-fitting

- Belt Knotting: Y'know, I guess this was something I had always just completely taken for granted! Now that you mention it, I guess I really haven't seen that many actual period examples of it in art. Incidentally, many thanks to Taurinor for posting those examples! Good Stuff! I've actually tied up my garters that exact way in the past, since it's a major pain to have strap-ends dangling around your lower legs while you're trying to walk. A center-bar buckle also significantly reduces the need for a strap-keeper, especially if the tail isn't too terribly long, but one way or another I'll probably always just keep tying my belt end, since I think it's both more visually appealing and more practical than just... lettin' it all hang out, as it were. And as you guys have said, what we're doing is fantasy anyway, so there's plenty of leeway.

- Shockbolt's Models on Shapeways - So I completely forgot to follow up about this here, but you guys should know that he has answered about my questions regarding the buckle size, and indeed has been very communicative. SUPER nice guy, actually. And HOOOOLY COW you should see some of the new stuff he's got in the works! Just beautiful! In fact, I believe Farodel was talking about this exact thing earlier in the thread: https://www.shapeways.com/product/R7WH5 ... d=61709482

I'm not sure if I'll end up using his Strider buckle or not, but he's currently testing out a bunch of his designs to make sure they're functional, and as soon as I get word that they're good to go, I'll probably place an order for one. That said, it's still not 100% screen-accurate, so Elleth, I may be hitting you up about that in any event.

And by the way, WOOOOW those new ones you got look fantastic! I can't wait to see where you take it from here! If you're getting a little better handle on the 3-d rendering side of things, I'd love to talk to you about creating some specific designs for things in the near future. There are a number of different buckles I'd like to try out, and for that matter, a few stamps I'd like to use for leatherworking, similar to the one you used for your belt. In fact... I'd love to nab one exactly like that, actually.
Maerondir Perianseron, also called “Mickel,” Halfling Friend - Ranger of the Misty Mountains
User avatar
Kortoso
Haeropada
Posts: 822
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:37 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Contact:

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Kortoso »

I'd prefer a buckle that was cast in bronze. One of those 3D printed pieces could be used as a start for a casting, yes?
There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild now, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go.
User avatar
SierraStrider
Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:54 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by SierraStrider »

Kortoso wrote:I'd prefer a buckle that was cast in bronze. One of those 3D printed pieces could be used as a start for a casting, yes?
I know PLA (a low-temp 3d printing plastic) is used for lost PLA casting, much like lost wax casting. It looks like the plastic ones they sell are nylon, though. Couldn't say how that would work. It looks like Shapeways will manufacture in castable wax, but I guess that has to be enabled for the specific object? Not sure.
User avatar
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 2932
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Elleth »

Thanks guys!

Ooh Manv - I've not seen those new ones of Shockbolts - cool!
If he'd been active a year ago I might never have gone down this road. Just as well though - this way I get exactly what I want.

I still need to get those strap ends refined a bit, but I think I have an idea how to do that.
My intent is to make at least a few steel buckles available via shapeways, but only to forum members. Membership privileges and all that.
:)

I'd prefer a buckle that was cast in bronze. One of those 3D printed pieces could be used as a start for a casting, yes?
Yup! That was the original idea actually. Some of those plastic ones you see in the second picture are going to be duplicated in wax and then used for lost wax bronze casting after a bit of manual cleanup.
That's the extra nice part about using shapeways for making masters for traditional work rather than just printing the final product - it lets you keep those little imperfections of manually created pieces.

edit - yes Sierra, I could set those to print in wax, but it's about the triple the cost of plastic. Since I already have the setup for making duplicates in wax, it's much more cost effective to order plastic masters. Especially for things like buckles where I'll likely want to make several at a go.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
Kortoso
Haeropada
Posts: 822
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:37 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Contact:

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Kortoso »

If the shapes are fairly simple and no undercut, then a two-part mold could be made without too much fuss. (Not that I've done that yet.)
There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild now, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go.
User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2582
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Manveruon »

I absolutely love where this is heading! And yes, Elleth, I definitely see your logic in wanting to grab them in plastic first, then do the wax ones yourself from the plastic masters. It's a lot of steps, but I bet it yields great results in the end.

As for Shockbolt, he had some issues with some of his early designs because he attempted to have them ready-printed with the tongues and all the pieces already attached, but discovered that the printing process was just imprecise enough to make it so they might all get fused together. Since then he has altered his patterns to produce all the pieces separately, but connected by a sprue, but he's not totally sure that will work, especially with some of his more complex models, so he's testing them himself first, and it's taking FOR.EV.ER.

With that in mind, and also the fact that his design for the Strider buckle is JUST short of screen-accurate (at least for my tastes), I would love to see about collaborating with you to work up a version that suits my purposes a little more closely, if you're open to it.
Maerondir Perianseron, also called “Mickel,” Halfling Friend - Ranger of the Misty Mountains
User avatar
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 2932
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Elleth »

so he's testing them himself first, and it's taking FOR.EV.ER.
I feel your pain. Shapeways turnaround on plastic is pretty good, but metal parts languish in the "processing" stage for weeks.
Good incentive to get it right the first time I guess. :/

FWIW - I think each additional part to a project gives you a noticeable upcharge ($10?), but sprues to get around that is to my mind false economy - I think you'll be putting in more than $10 of labor sawing and cutting an polishing to get it back apart. But YMMV. Also I don't know if Shapeways steel parts can be bent without breaking, so I'm wary of doing the tongue that way.

Anyhow sure - if you don't have a good one by early summer, I'll see what I can do. :)
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2582
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: A Quandary Over Buckles

Post by Manveruon »

Awesome, thanks!

And yeah, you're absolutely right about all of that, I think. He actually mentioned all of those concerns to me in his last message, which is why he's testing it himself before recommending I grab one. I'd like to see if he can just do a Strider buckle with the strap-bar already attached but no tongue piece. I feel like that would be a better option in the end, because then all I have to do is make a tongue out of a big piece of wire or something.

But yeah, I may want to try to work something else up with you too, if all of that just gets too complicated.

In the meantime, I think I will almost certainly be buying one of these for my eventual Ithilien ranger quiver:

http://www.handmaderevolution.org/medie ... onal-plate
Maerondir Perianseron, also called “Mickel,” Halfling Friend - Ranger of the Misty Mountains
Post Reply