Jackets and Coats and Furs (oh my!)?

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Taurinor
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Jackets and Coats and Furs (oh my!)?

Post by Taurinor »

In the discussion of Packs and Cloaks, the topic of jackets came up.
Kortoso wrote:The Vikings were known to wear a jacket that would be practical, at least for my range.
Image
It was correctly observed, though, that in Tolkien’s work,
Greg wrote: cloaks are prevalent. That's part of what makes this so fun and challenging...making it work in the context of Tolkien's imagination.
The recent cold snap in Virginia got me thinking about layering, though, so I was curious to see what sort of options were available in the text. After a few Ctrl-F’s through the Material Culture Database, I was able to find a few instances of jackets and coats (but probably not all of them, so don’t take this to be an exhaustive list!), not worn instead of cloaks, but in combination with them.
The Hobbit, Chapter 1: An Unexpected Party wrote:Dori, Nori, and Ori brought out flutes from somewhere inside their coats
The Hobbit, Chapter 1: An Unexpected Party wrote:he fastened [Thrain’s key] upon a fine chain that hung about his neck and under his jacket.
So, dwarves wear coats and/or jackets in addition to the cloaks they hung up upon arriving.
The Hobbit, Chapter 5: Riddles in the Dark wrote:[Bilbo] was through, with a torn coat and waistcoat...
The Lord of the Rings, Book I: The Ring Sets Out, Chapter 8: Fog on the Barrow-Downs wrote:[Sam] flung his circlet, belt, and rings on the grass, and looked round helplessly, as if he expected to find his cloak, jacket, and breeches, and other hobbit-garments lying somewhere to hand.
The Lord of the Rings, Book I: The Ring Sets Out, Chapter 8: Fog on the Barrow-Downs wrote:[The hobbits’] new weapons they hung on their leather belts under their jackets
The Lord of the Rings, Book II The Ring Goes South, Chapter 3 The Ring Goes South wrote:Bilbo put it on him, and fastened Sting upon the glittering belt; and then Frodo put over the top his old weather-stained breeches, tunic, and jacket.
Hobbits also wear jackets in combination with cloaks. I find it interesting that in The Hobbit, Bilbo is described as wearing a coat and waistcoat (which makes me think of the 18th-19th century-style clothing the hobbits wear in the films), but in The Lord of the Rings, Frodo is described as wearing a tunic instead of a waistcoat.
The Lord of the Rings, Book II The Ring Goes South, Chapter 3 The Ring Goes South wrote:All were well furnished by Elrond with thick warm clothes, and they had jackets and cloaks lined with fur.
“Jackets and cloaks lined with fur” makes me think of the picture of the Fellowship done by the Hildebrandt brothers:

Image

I don’t agree with all of the HB’s artistic choices (what is up with Strider’s hat?!), but they committed to the fur-lined jackets. I suppose, grammatically speaking, it could be that only the cloaks are lined with fur, or it could be both. It could also be that some of the members of the Fellowship had jackets and some had cloaks, but given the previous examples of cloaks and jackets being worn together, it seems more likely that everyone got both.

Unfortunately, I couldn’t find any information about what sort of coats and jackets might be used. I like the style of jacket Kortoso posted (which appears to be based on the Hedeby klappenrock jacket fragment and/or images from Viking helmet plaques), especially for dwarves, but that’s just a personal aesthetic preference and not backed up by the text.
Last edited by Taurinor on Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Udwin
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Re: Jackets and Coats?

Post by Udwin »

That's a good point about Frodo vs. Bilbo's clothes that I never really realized before! Frodo is consistently described as wearing only "jacket" and "tunic" (and the solitary mention of a "shirt of soft leather" under his tunic and mithril coat).

One thing this topic (and the Hildebrandt painting especially) makes me consider is Tolkien's use of the word 'lined'. When I think of a garment lined with fur, I picture the fur covering the entire inside surface of the garment...while if the fur is only used on the edges of a garment, I would call it 'trimmed with fur' - which is how I would describe what we see in the painting above.
But Tolkien never describes garments that way. He always (in the two instances where he discusses such items--Boromir's cloak, the Fellowship's jackets and/or cloaks) describes garments as lined with fur. With that in mind, despite the ridiculous amounts of fluffy trim, the Hildebrandt's garments don't look very warm to me, as the body and sleeves are clearly not puffy enough to do much insulation. (Remember that the Company heads out just before midwinter (this coming Wednesday, point of fact), are never described carrying any shelter, and needed to be equipped to cross a mountain pass. (Tolkien based the Misties on the Alps, and the Matterhorn is well over 14,000 feet.) You're not going to be doing that with just fur around the cuffs and collars.

Incidentally, I also pulled up a surprising reference to Haldir's scouts in BkIICh6, who provide the hobbits with "fur-cloaks" to be used in conjunction with their own blankets against the cold winter night in the treetops. This to me suggests many square feet of fur--picture something like a bearskin, buffalo robe, or many smaller furs joined together, as in modern fur clothing.

Basically, to my eyes, fur-trimmed hoods, cloaks, jackets, &c. read as upstrata medieval wear, while use of truly fur-lined garments read as ancient and authentic.
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Re: Jackets and Coats?

Post by Taurinor »

Udwin wrote:Basically, to my eyes, fur-trimmed hoods, cloaks, jackets, &c. read as upstrata medieval wear, while use of truly fur-lined garments read as ancient and authentic.
I read an article from La Cotte Simple recently that discussed the basics of how fur was used in medieval clothing (mostly in the 14th and 15th centuries) and what furs were used. Yes, fur was used to trim clothing during that period, but fur linings were also present (and very fashionable!).

I think you're right about the fur in the HB's image being trim rather than lining, though - definitely not enough volume on some of those garments (especially Strider's coat).
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Re: Jackets and Coats?

Post by Straelbora »

Here in the greater Indianapolis area, we have many Goodwill stores that have been the source of many of my Middle-earth gear and garb. We also have two stores that are called 'outlets.' They have plastic bins on wheels. The bins are about the size of pool tables. All sorts of stuff either recently donated or unable to be sold at the stores are dumped into the bins. They have clothing bins, shoe bins, and 'everything else including the kitchen sink' bins. Everything in the outlet stores is sold by the pound ($.99/lb for general merchandise; $1.99/lb for shoes). I have scored many real furs, mostly mink, between regular Goodwill stores and the outlet stores. I posted a photo on the Ranger Facebook page of a very 'Doris Day 1960' mink stole. It's at the shop of a tailor I know who also does historical costume. I was going to go for a fur-lined or fur-trimmed cloak or mantle out of it. I'm glad I told him that I was in no hurry- he just messaged me that a woman who is a regular client fell in love with it, and may be willing to trade a wolf or bear hide for the mantle, which cost me all of about $8.

Long story short- check out Salvation Army/Goodwill stores for old fur coats, stoles, etc. You'd be surprised how cheap you can get real furs for.

I've had my eye out for an old sealskin coat. They were fashionable up until the 1950s. The CITES treaty prevents the import of seal fur or hide to the US, and only Native peoples may possess it in Alaska and elsewhere. Vikings routinely used sealskin for boots, and I would love to deconstruct an old coat to make a pair for my winter Ranger gear.
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Re: Jackets and Coats?

Post by Taurinor »

As an FYI, I changed the name of the subject to include the direction this discussion has gone in.
Straelbora wrote:Long story short- check out Salvation Army/Goodwill stores for old fur coats, stoles, etc. You'd be surprised how cheap you can get real furs for.
The article I shared commented on recycling furs:
La cotte simple wrote:Many recycled furs come from coats where the fur is worn on the outside, and such fur is often selected for its puffiness. Lining furs tended to be shorter and less puffy as a rule.
Which is not to say don't use them, of course! I am a big fan of finding ranger-ing items at thrift stores. Just something to keep in mind.
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Re: Jackets and Coats?

Post by Kortoso »

Taurinor wrote:
Udwin wrote:Basically, to my eyes, fur-trimmed hoods, cloaks, jackets, &c. read as upstrata medieval wear, while use of truly fur-lined garments read as ancient and authentic.
I read an article from La Cotte Simple recently that discussed the basics of how fur was used in medieval clothing (mostly in the 14th and 15th centuries) and what furs were used. Yes, fur was used to trim clothing during that period, but fur linings were also present (and very fashionable!).

I think you're right about the fur in the HB's image being trim rather than lining, though - definitely not enough volume on some of those garments (especially Strider's coat).
Taurinor, you're a poet and didn't know it. :mrgreen: "Cotte" or "cote" was an old word for "tunic" back in the Middle Ages; not necessarily a "coat" was we now understand it. To some degree, we may just be chasing a semantic squirrel. In truth, medieval tunics were "pouched" such that the fabric hung over the belt, providing a hiding place for odds and ends.

On the other hand, when the first westerners visited Japan, they had no names for the katana and kimono, so they used words like "saber" and "robe", which tends to give an inaccurate impression. One way to interpret fantasy literature "as if" the created world was real, is in a similar fashion: if Middle-Earth was real, then none of it would be familiar to us, and we would scramble to find words to describe the material culture. Just a thought.
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Re: Jackets and Coats and Furs (oh my!)?

Post by Mirimaran »

There is also artificial fur, sold at Jo-Ann's and the like, we got a ton of it one year at clearance prices. I am not a big fan of fur myself, but do undertand the uses, and the reuses of materials. My own "Rangr coat" is a repurposed 2xl leather jacket that I got for 30 dollars at a Goodwill, and I followed the example from the good folks from "Born of Hope", tore it down, and rebuilt it :) alot of fun, actually, and again, comfortable and works well.

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Re: Jackets and Coats and Furs (oh my!)?

Post by Taurinor »

Kortoso wrote:"Cotte" or "cote" was an old word for "tunic" back in the Middle Ages; not necessarily a "coat" was we now understand it. To some degree, we may just be chasing a semantic squirrel.
It's possible - I don't know nearly enough about linguistics to be able to guess if Tolkien used the archaic meanings of words often. I don't know if the same can be said about "jacket," though, especially since Frodo is described as wearing both a tunic and a jacket. That makes me think that they are distinct enough to warrant using different words to describe them (as opposed to just saying "tunics").
Kortoso wrote:In truth, medieval tunics were "pouched" such that the fabric hung over the belt, providing a hiding place for odds and ends.
I have a friend who wears a cross-over jacket based on the Hedeby coat fragment, and he loves being able to tuck things into the front. I've seen 18th century longhunter reenactors do the same with hunting frocks.
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Re: Jackets and Coats and Furs (oh my!)?

Post by Kortoso »

The Japanese apparently did this too sometimes. There's a funny bit in Kurosawa's Seven Samurai where Mifune's character Kikuchiyo is trying to retrieve a scroll he has hidden in his kimono. :P
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Re: Jackets and Coats and Furs (oh my!)?

Post by Elleth »

Clearly time to update my mental picture a bit. :)

I'd not thought of much fur, but even in a purely medieval context it would make sense: the viewpoint characters are either high social status already, or known to be on a mission of the highest importance - every ally they meet has every reason to pull out all the stops and give the Fellowship the very best that they can manage.

Moreover, I'd expect in Eriador that fur would be comparatively cheaper / less regulated than it is in historical Europe: a lot fewer people, a lot more wildlife.
... might have to add some fur to the ensemble at some point. It's certainly the season for it. :)
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Re: Jackets and Coats and Furs (oh my!)?

Post by Straelbora »

Elleth wrote:Clearly time to update my mental picture a bit. :)

I'd not thought of much fur, but even in a purely medieval context it would make sense: the viewpoint characters are either high social status already, or known to be on a mission of the highest importance - every ally they meet has every reason to pull out all the stops and give the Fellowship the very best that they can manage.

Moreover, I'd expect in Eriador that fur would be comparatively cheaper / less regulated than it is in historical Europe: a lot fewer people, a lot more wildlife.
... might have to add some fur to the ensemble at some point. It's certainly the season for it. :)
On a Viking clothing Facebook page, I participated in a very long thread about furs, trim and lining, and two things I didn't know: that hares, and later, rabbits, were introducted to Scandinavia relatively recently. And that squirrel furs were used extensively.
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