My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

A place for pics and tutorials on making Soft Kit (clothing and accessories like buckles and cloak pins).

Moderators: caedmon, Greg

User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2582
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Manveruon »

I agree; that hood is a great addition to your kit. Very nicely done.
Maerondir Perianseron, also called “Mickel,” Halfling Friend - Ranger of the Misty Mountains
User avatar
Iodo
Thangailhir
Posts: 2112
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
Location: North west england UK
Contact:

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Iodo »

I'm resurrecting this thread for a reason, I was thinking about the general look of my kit, and it's not quite as dwarven as I'd like. It took me a while to work out what I think the problem is, but I think I've got it just about figured out now? A year or so ago Greg said:
Greg wrote:This stuff is great! I don't mean to pigeonhole you here, but your gear has a very Breelander feel to it. You'd fit in around Eriador, for sure!
And I agree there's a Bree feel to it, but the main thing I don't like is my long brown wool surcoat (https://www.middleearthrangers.org/foru ... =25&t=3977) I think the V shaped cut at the front has too much of a ranger/elvish look to it. When I made it I thought that would be less obvious if it had dwarven patterns on, that doesn't work. Aside from looks, it's too long, last time I wore it out in the woods It kept getting caught on stuff and last time I went out in kit I left it at home even though it was a really cold day and I could have done with it (https://www.middleearthrangers.org/foru ... =31&t=4142) because I didn't want it getting in the way.

I still need something to add an extra layer and keep the rain off my legs, so as an attempt to visualize my potential solution I did some sketches:

Iodo kit sketch.JPG
Iodo kit sketch.JPG (249 KiB) Viewed 17192 times
So on the left I have the brown surcoat worn underneath the green "army blanket waistcoat" (my current setup) and on the right I have the solution I came up with, that I could make. A surcoat, that's still front fastening, longer than the waistcoat, shorter than the brown one (so it doesn't get caught on stuff), made from thick boiled wool, cut square instead of as a V shape and with thick linen borders, still with dwarven patterns.

And the question is, does it look more dwarvish? I think so, I'd still keep the "army blanket" waistcoat, I'm quite fond of that, but it would be the layer I loose in warmer weather rather than the longer surcoat
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
User avatar
caedmon
Balku'npâ
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:30 am
Location: Palmer Alaska

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by caedmon »

Silly question, why is it split in the front?

One of the main reasons in history that long skirted clothing and armor was split front & back historically was for riding. You see splits on the side for those who go on foot.

Dwarves are generally depicted as infantry.
-Jack Horner

----------------------------
Impression: Cædmon Reedmace | bronze founder living in Archet, Breeland. c. 3017
User avatar
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 2925
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Elleth »

caedmon: we go over that somewhat Greg's surcote thread.
Basically: four panels makes movement surprisingly easy in undergrowth, even if they're fairly long.

For what it's worth, I do think the squared-off bottoms do fit the WETA boxy aesthetic more than the angled hem Iodo. Certainly horizontal lines absolutely emphasize girth, which is what I think you're looking for in a dwarven kit.

Brainstorming a bit... it seems to me if "boxy" is what you want - and are looking for more coverage than a waistcoat but don't like the surcote:

what about a lighter weight gambeson? You could do it with quilting in "dwarvish" patterns to really emphasize the aesthetic if you like. I think a coarse linen outer layer with leather edging could be made really distinctive looking.

Or alternately, seeing as how the dwarves probably have more immediate access to hides and wools than linen, maybe a sheep/goat leather outer layer?

edit:
since you're interested in following the film aesthetic.... I'd look really hard at Bofur's early getup, especially that sleeveless-coat thing he's wearing pre-Laketown with the vertical sections. Square off the bottom hem and push the whole thing in a linen-and-leather gambeson direction, I think you've got a pretty amazing foundation.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
Elwindil
Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:34 am
Location: Kansas

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Elwindil »

I would also suggest looking at historical references for layers, if you're looking to go the gambeson route, there's some good materials here on the site and upon request I can go digging through all of my reference links for things too.
User avatar
Iodo
Thangailhir
Posts: 2112
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
Location: North west england UK
Contact:

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Iodo »

Elleth wrote:caedmon: we go over that somewhat Greg's surcote thread.
Basically: four panels makes movement surprisingly easy in undergrowth, even if they're fairly long.

For what it's worth, I do think the squared-off bottoms do fit the WETA boxy aesthetic more than the angled hem Iodo. Certainly horizontal lines absolutely emphasize girth, which is what I think you're looking for in a dwarven kit.

Brainstorming a bit... it seems to me if "boxy" is what you want - and are looking for more coverage than a waistcoat but don't like the surcote:

what about a lighter weight gambeson? You could do it with quilting in "dwarvish" patterns to really emphasize the aesthetic if you like. I think a coarse linen outer layer with leather edging could be made really distinctive looking.

Or alternately, seeing as how the dwarves probably have more immediate access to hides and wools than linen, maybe a sheep/goat leather outer layer?

edit:
since you're interested in following the film aesthetic.... I'd look really hard at Bofur's early getup, especially that sleeveless-coat thing he's wearing pre-Laketown with the vertical sections. Square off the bottom hem and push the whole thing in a linen-and-leather gambeson direction, I think you've got a pretty amazing foundation.
Some good ideas there, I don't think I'd use a gambeson, I'm OK with them for armour but I usually find that even a thin one is too stiff to be comfortable when used as clothing, maybe sheepskin but that's expensive and hard to get hold of (in colors I like that is :P)

If I have fabric I might just make the surcoat to see what it looks like, If it were the same fabric as my cloak would that look right? the boarder would be different but I don't want my kit to look to matching, that reduces camouflage
caedmon wrote:Silly question, why is it split in the front?

One of the main reasons in history that long skirted clothing and armor was split front & back historically was for riding. You see splits on the side for those who go on foot.

Dwarves are generally depicted as infantry.
Like Elleth says, It just makes things easier, having a single piece is fine on flat ground but when you need to step over a log it gets tricky
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
User avatar
Iodo
Thangailhir
Posts: 2112
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
Location: North west england UK
Contact:

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Iodo »

It took me quite a while to decide what fabric to use to make this, it's a bit different so I hope I made a good choice. The wool is a course donegal tweed and the edging is raw-silk/wool blend, I don't know what the proportions are but at a guess (from what it smells like when burnt) it's 20% wool. It's all machine sewn so no work of art, but, to me anyway, it has a more dwarven look, and it's shorter (just above the knees instead of just below) so it doesn't get snagged on undergrowth and such

Image

Image

I might add a bit of embroidery, not too complicated a pattern though, there's a lot of edge :mrgreen:

And I need to get rid of that very shiny belt buckle


[EDIT] I also made a linen version of this for summer use: viewtopic.php?f=25&p=52355#p52355
Last edited by Iodo on Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
User avatar
Greg
Urush bithî 'nKi ya-nam bawâb
Posts: 4496
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:50 pm
Location: Eriador; Central Indiana

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Greg »

Now THAT is cool. A very utilitarian, yet in-universe feel to it. Well executed! Did you hand stitch this (curiosity)?
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
User avatar
Iodo
Thangailhir
Posts: 2112
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
Location: North west england UK
Contact:

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Iodo »

Thank you, glad you like it :P
Greg wrote:Did you hand stitch this (curiosity)?
No, sorry :mrgreen:
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
User avatar
Odigan
Vendor
Posts: 332
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:42 pm
Location: Southern WI
Contact:

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Odigan »

Yay tweed! Not enough of that about, in my opinion. Looks great!
User avatar
Bumr Blackbrand
Wayfarer
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:22 am
Location: Southern California

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Bumr Blackbrand »

This thing is too cool, major props.
User avatar
Ringulf
Naugothrain
Posts: 2413
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: Central Florida
Contact:

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Ringulf »

caedmon wrote:Silly question, why is it split in the front?

One of the main reasons in history that long skirted clothing and armor was split front & back historically was for riding. You see splits on the side for those who go on foot.

Dwarves are generally depicted as infantry.
Goats man we ride goats! big honkin curly horned goats! War Goats, work goats, travel goats, pack goats, you name it we gotta goat for just about everything....well there was this slightly eccentric aristocrat that rode a big pig into battle....but that was a long time ago...We also don't mind ponies when in the lands of men and we can't get out preferred mounts...need I say it?...GOATS! :mrgreen:

(Oh and because of short arms and big bellies many prefer the front slit in the water closet...just sayin'.) :shock: :oops: :wink:
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
User avatar
Ringulf
Naugothrain
Posts: 2413
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: Central Florida
Contact:

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Ringulf »

Oh and by the way Iodo you are amazing! That is a fine garment, your Khazadiness can truly shine in that! Well done! :mrgreen:
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
User avatar
Iodo
Thangailhir
Posts: 2112
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
Location: North west england UK
Contact:

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Iodo »

Thank you all :P
Ringulf wrote:
caedmon wrote:Silly question, why is it split in the front?

One of the main reasons in history that long skirted clothing and armor was split front & back historically was for riding. You see splits on the side for those who go on foot.

Dwarves are generally depicted as infantry.
Goats man we ride goats! big honkin curly horned goats! War Goats, work goats, travel goats, pack goats, you name it we gotta goat for just about everything....well there was this slightly eccentric aristocrat that rode a big pig into battle....but that was a long time ago...We also don't mind ponies when in the lands of men and we can't get out preferred mounts...need I say it?...GOATS! :mrgreen:
Yep, Goats, I was too polite to correct LOL :mrgreen:
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
User avatar
Elwindil
Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:34 am
Location: Kansas

Re: My first cloak, and a question (pic heavy)

Post by Elwindil »

I recall seeing something somewhere talking about Dwarven Bear Cavalry, perhaps I was mistaken though. Your kit is coming along quite well, wish I could say the same for mine. *laughs* as for the shiny buckle, there's a fair few folks on etsy that have lovely buckles, or there's the route of getting one from our very own resident buckle maker as well.
Post Reply