New Belt

A place for pics and tutorials on making Soft Kit (clothing and accessories like buckles and cloak pins).

Moderators: caedmon, Greg

User avatar
Mithdir
Wanderer
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:19 am

New Belt

Post by Mithdir »

Mae govannen,
I just wanted to share with you the latest addition to my kit. It's a belt made of full grain oak bark tanned leather with a cast brass buckle. I designed it taking inspiration from both Legolas' and Frodo's belts as seen in the films.

Image
Notice the particular way in which the tip is folded over the buckle, instead of (as in most belts) going under where it is not seen. I liked the distinctive look this detail gave the belt.
Image
From the shape of the buckle to the pointed tip, Legolas' belt in the films is the one from which I drew the most inspiration.

I bevelled and burnished the edges; grooved in the decorative lines; hand stitched the buckle seam and punched in the oval holes. No finish was applied to the leather, but I plan on making my own mixture of beeswax and olive oil to keep it nurtured and flexible.
Here are my pictures of the finished belt:

Image
Image

Currently I am using it as my daily belt, to break it in and start getting some wear on it. Hopefully in a few months it will look more like an object that has seen its share of winters in the wild lands of the North :D

Now, in the world of Middle-earth, there is no denying this has been made by the elves, and that may not seem appropriate for a Dúnedain ranger, but my reasoning is that it may have been given to me at Imladris while resting there in between journeys. As I understand, Rivendell was always a sort of permanent base camp for the nomad Dúnedain, where they could be healed and supplied on their missions.

Also, this being my first 'proper' post on this forum, I greatly appreciate criticism. In future projects, should I try making posts shorter, or would you enjoy even more details? Perhaps posting some pictures of the actual making, not just the finished product? Please tell me what you think.

Anyways, thank you for reading, I hope you found this interesting.
Last edited by Mithdir on Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Short cuts make long delays"
User avatar
Udwin
Vendor
Posts: 794
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:00 pm
Location: central Kain-tuc-kee
Contact:

Re: New Belt

Post by Udwin »

Wow, very nice work! So you are portraying a Dunedain of the North?
While I'm all for authentic use patina being built up over time, a quick wipe down with household ammonia can help give you a head start!
What is your source for the brass buckle? Did you make it??
I think for something as simple as a belt, your post was the right amount of background, pictures, and explanation. Different projects will require different amounts of each.
Personae: Aistan son of Ansteig, common Beorning of Wilderland; Tungo Brandybuck, Eastfarthing Bounder, 3018 TA; a native Man of the Greyflood, c.850 SA
User avatar
Taurinor
Amrod Rhandir
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:06 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: New Belt

Post by Taurinor »

Wow, very nice! The clean lines and simplicity of it should age very well! It looks like the leather should take on a lovely reddish-brown hue once it's waxed/oiled and sees some sun.

I second all of Udwin's questions! I also don't think I've ever seen a post on this forum complaining about too much detail or too many pictures :mrgreen:
Guillem Clapés wrote:Now, in the world of Middle-earth, there is no denying this has been made by the elves, and that may not seem appropriate for a Dúnedain ranger, but my reasoning is that it may have been given to me at Imladris while resting there in between journeys. As I understand, Rivendell was always a sort of permanent base camp for the nomad Dúnedain, where they could be healed and supplied on their missions.
I'm not sure that the relationship between the Rangers of the North and Rivendell is spelled out that clearly in the text (I definitely could have missed something, though - Elleth and Greg would know much better than I do), but Arwen's "brothers, Elladan and Elrohir, (...) rode often far afield with the Rangers of the North" (LotR, Book II, Chapter 1: Many Meetings) and scouts sent by Elrond went (among other places) "west, and with the help of Aragorn and the Rangers had searched the lands far down the Greyflood, as far as Tharbad" (LotR, Book II, Chapter 3: The Ring Goes South), so it seems like there were definitely opportunities for cultural exchange.
- Ned Houndswood, Breelander
Richmond Fantasy-Inspired Hiking and Camping (on WordPress and Facebook)
User avatar
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 2925
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Re: New Belt

Post by Elleth »

Oh that's lovely! The mounting is very nicely done. I've seen that buckle on etsy, and confess to having been tempted. :)

Regarding its appropriateness for a Dunedain impression:

First, let's assume we're taking the WETA work as visual canon. In that case, the buckle - belonging to Legolas in the films - is from the Mirkwood elves. I don't know as I'd go so far as to say they're *estranged* from those of Rivendell, but there's not much contact at all as I recall. As to the other buckle - I can't recall when the LOTR Sting swordbelt first appears - does Bilbo have that same belt in The Hobbit? If so, the buckle's likely ancient, of Gondolinrim origin. If not, one could assume - like the inscription - it was added in Rivendell.

Now for the matter of "would a Dunedain have elven gear?"

When I first started this hobby, I had very similar thoughts, and was intending strong elven influence in my kit. The more time I've spent in the sources though, the less defensible I find it. While the elves of Imladris and the Dunedain are certainly allies, in the text I seem to smell a certain social distance between the peoples. I've kept an "elvish" silver ring I call a token of friendship, but am in the process of purging everything else "elven" from my own outfits. I think the further one goes from "plausible (rare) gift from one person to another" the less it works.

This goes to the more mainline reenacting maxim of "keep it common" - kits that look like they were put together at the cultural buffet line simply don't have as cohesive and "real" a look to my eye.

YMMV, it's all a hobby we do for fun, do what you want - all the standard disclaimers, of course. :mrgreen:
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
Taurinor
Amrod Rhandir
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:06 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: New Belt

Post by Taurinor »

Elleth wrote:While the elves of Imladris and the Dunedain are certainly allies, in the text I seem to smell a certain social distance between the peoples.
You, too? I couldn't find anything overt to back it up, but I have the feeling that while Isildur's heir might be able to come and go from Elrond's hall, the average Dunedain struggling to survive in the Angle might not be welcome. Like I said, I don't have a quote to point to (other than what seems like Elrond's general distrust of Men, and really, who can blame him?), and it could be an impression I developed from the movies, rather than the books.
Last edited by Taurinor on Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Ned Houndswood, Breelander
Richmond Fantasy-Inspired Hiking and Camping (on WordPress and Facebook)
User avatar
Mithdir
Wanderer
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:19 am

Re: New Belt

Post by Mithdir »

Udwin wrote:Wow, very nice work! So you are portraying a Dunedain of the North?
While I'm all for authentic use patina being built up over time, a quick wipe down with household ammonia can help give you a head start!
What is your source for the brass buckle? Did you make it??
I think for something as simple as a belt, your post was the right amount of background, pictures, and explanation. Different projects will require different amounts of each.
Taurinor wrote:Wow, very nice! The clean lines and simplicity of it should age very well! It looks like the leather should take on a lovely reddish-brown hue once it's waxed/oiled and sees some sun.

I second all of Udwin's questions! I also don't think I've ever seen a post on this forum complaining about too much detail or too many pictures :mrgreen:
Mithdir wrote:Now, in the world of Middle-earth, there is no denying this has been made by the elves, and that may not seem appropriate for a Dúnedain ranger, but my reasoning is that it may have been given to me at Imladris while resting there in between journeys. As I understand, Rivendell was always a sort of permanent base camp for the nomad Dúnedain, where they could be healed and supplied on their missions.
I'm not sure that the relationship between the Rangers of the North and Rivendell is spelled out that clearly in the text (I definitely could have missed something, though - Elleth and Greg would know much better than I do), but Arwen's "brothers, Elladan and Elrohir, (...) rode often far afield with the Rangers of the North" (LotR, Book II, Chapter 1: Many Meetings) and scouts sent by Elrond went (among other places) "west, and with the help of Aragorn and the Rangers had searched the lands far down the Greyflood, as far as Tharbad" (LotR, Book II, Chapter 3: The Ring Goes South), so it seems like there were definitely opportunities for cultural exchange.
Yes, I am portraying one. At first I doubted between a Dúnedain ranger and a ranger of Ithilien, but I've settled for a Dúnedain. I might add some Gondorian elements which I very much like, as a hint of maybe some past adventures or some ancient family heirloom ;) Thanks for the tip on the patina, but at the moment as I'm not in a hurry I think I'll just wait and see what happens.
The brass buckle I bought from an Italian seller on Etsy called TheIronRing https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheIronRing. It took about a month to get here, longer than expected, but the quality is excellent. When it arrived, I was slightly disapointed, because the whole surface was very rough, but after a few hours of sanding it ended up looking amazing. Totally worth it for the price.

And, Taurinor, indeed this leather is really rather lovely. It came from J&FJ Bakers in England, and is tanned with oak bark like it used to be done. I read they've been tanning leather there since the Roman times. I really recommend it. The smell of it is amazing. I ordered it through another Etsy shop (https://www.etsy.com/shop/MCKVintage) who sells straps and belt blanks, as I really cannot afford an entire hide.

I think I read the Dúnedain-Rivendell theory somewhere online, so perhaps it does not have any basis in the text, but the quotes you provided prove that it is likely a Dúnedain would possess elven made items.
Last edited by Mithdir on Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Short cuts make long delays"
User avatar
Taurinor
Amrod Rhandir
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:06 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: New Belt

Post by Taurinor »

Guillem Clapés wrote:I think I read the Dúnedain-Rivendell theory somewhere online, so perhaps it does not have any basis in the text, but the quotes you provided prove that it is likely a Dúnedain would possess elven made items.
I don't know that I would go so far as "likely would" (see Elleth's post above), but "could" seems possible, in small doses. As Elleth said, though, your mileage may vary and this is all ultimately for fun!
- Ned Houndswood, Breelander
Richmond Fantasy-Inspired Hiking and Camping (on WordPress and Facebook)
User avatar
Mithdir
Wanderer
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:19 am

Re: New Belt

Post by Mithdir »

Elleth wrote:Oh that's lovely! The mounting is very nicely done. I've seen that buckle on etsy, and confess to having been tempted. :)

Regarding its appropriateness for a Dunedain impression:

First, let's assume we're taking the WETA work as visual canon. In that case, the buckle - belonging to Legolas in the films - is from the Mirkwood elves. I don't know as I'd go so far as to say they're *estranged* from those of Rivendell, but there's not much contact at all as I recall. As to the other buckle - I can't recall when the LOTR Sting swordbelt first appears - does Bilbo have that same belt in The Hobbit? If so, the buckle's likely ancient, of Gondolinrim origin. If not, one could assume - like the inscription - it was added in Rivendell.

Now for the matter of "would a Dunedain have elven gear?"

When I first started this hobby, I had very similar thoughts, and was intending strong elven influence in my kit. The more time I've spent in the sources though, the less defensible I find it. While the elves of Imladris and the Dunedain are certainly allies, in the text I seem to smell a certain social distance between the peoples. I've kept an "elvish" silver ring I call a token of friendship, but am in the process of purging everything else "elven" from my own outfits. I think the further one goes from "plausible (rare) gift from one person to another" the less it works.

This goes to the more mainline reenacting maxim of "keep it common" - kits that look like they were put together at the cultural buffet line simply don't have as cohesive and "real" a look to my eye.

YMMV, it's all a hobby we do for fun, do what you want - all the standard disclaimers, of course. :mrgreen:
I know the buckle design belongs to Legolas, and that as such it comes from Mirkwood, but I think when you have a race that basically lives forever, the sort of basic designs and styles for things like clothing or architecture reach a stable place and cease to evolve much, at least that is my thought. So I think it is plausible for belts and buckles to be similar in both Rivendell and Mirkwood. I am surprised by the thought of rangers not being welcome in Elrond's house, perhaps I should pay more attention in my next reading of the books :P

Maybe it is not the most likely thing to happen, but I think the good-hearted folk in the Last Homely House would help a stranded ranger in need of something to hang his sword and pouches on ;)

I am not planning on having many Elvish elements in my kit, really it was only the belt. When I found that buckle on Etsy it was just too beautiful to not use it on something.
"Short cuts make long delays"
User avatar
Iodo
Thangailhir
Posts: 2112
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
Location: North west england UK
Contact:

Re: New Belt

Post by Iodo »

Great work, that belt really came out well, if you put a patina on the buckle make sure you post a picture of how it comes out, as I'm thinking of trying this :P That post was great, in my opinion the more the better, I am usually guilty of not including enough information :lol:
Elleth wrote: First, let's assume we're taking the WETA work as visual canon. In that case, the buckle - belonging to Legolas in the films - is from the Mirkwood elves. I don't know as I'd go so far as to say they're *estranged* from those of Rivendell, but there's not much contact at all as I recall. As to the other buckle - I can't recall when the LOTR Sting swordbelt first appears - does Bilbo have that same belt in The Hobbit? If so, the buckle's likely ancient, of Gondolinrim origin. If not, one could assume - like the inscription - it was added in Rivendell.
After careful looking through the pictures in the WETA books and movie footage, frodo has the belt in LOTR but in the hobbit bilbo has sting on a leather strap that is attached two different belts during the trilogy. The first is probably from the shire since bilbo already has it when he gets sting from the trolls hoard, the second is the wide belt from lake town. So frodo's belt most likely comes from rivendell.
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
User avatar
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 2925
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Re: New Belt

Post by Elleth »

You, too? I couldn't find anything overt to back it up, but I have the feeling that while Isildur's heir might be able to come and go from Elrond's hall, the average Dunedain struggling to survive in the Angle might not be welcome. Like I said, I don't have a quote to point to (other than what seems like Elrond's general distrust of Men, and really, who can blame him?), and it could be an impression I developed from the movies, rather than the books.
I don't think I'd go quite that far, but I think it's not far off. I'd liken it rather to (say) being Gaulish auxiliaries to the Roman legion or Cherokee allies to colonial Britain. There's absolutely communication and mutual aid and mutual respect, you'll absolutely be invited to some state occasions... but that doesn't mean you're going to be welcome to pop in at the Governor's mansion for a spot of tea whenever you feel like it. I don't think the example precisely fits the cultural situation between the Rivendell elves and the Dunedain at the end of the Third Age (there's a much more equal power balance to start with, and a Very Inconvenient Point Of History) - but it's a reasonable starting point for the modern mind to begin to grasp it.

Ultimately, as children of a largely democratic /egalitarian, largely global, largely commercial meta-society, it can sometimes be hard to get ourselves in the headspace of essentially feudal, much more insular peoples. But that's the difference between immersive living history and ren-faire with funny clothes.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 2925
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Re: New Belt

Post by Elleth »

After careful looking through the pictures in the WETA books and movie footage, frodo has the belt in LOTR but in the hobbit bilbo has sting on a leather strap that is attached two different belts during the trilogy. The first is probably from the shire since bilbo already has it when he gets sting from the trolls hoard, the second is the wide belt from lake town. So frodo's belt most likely comes from rivendell.
Great detective work! :)

I suspect within the canon of the film timeline then, the elves of Rivendell made quite a gift to the old hobbit, dressing up his old sword so beautifully. :)

When I found that buckle on Etsy it was just too beautiful to not use it on something.
I totally know the feeling. :mrgreen:
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
Taurinor
Amrod Rhandir
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:06 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: New Belt

Post by Taurinor »

Elleth wrote:I don't think I'd go quite that far, but I think it's not far off. I'd liken it rather to (say) being Gaulish auxiliaries to the Roman legion or Cherokee allies to colonial Britain. There's absolutely communication and mutual aid and mutual respect, you'll absolutely be invited to some state occasions... but that doesn't mean you're going to be welcome to pop in at the Governor's mansion for a spot of tea whenever you feel like it. I don't think the example precisely fits the cultural situation between the Rivendell elves and the Dunedain at the end of the Third Age (there's a much more equal power balance to start with, and a Very Inconvenient Point Of History) - but it's a reasonable starting point for the modern mind to begin to grasp it. .
Ah, interesting! The auxiliary/legionnaire comparison is very helpful to me, thanks! Sort of a attitude of "We're all on the same team, but some of us have been playing for this team longer than others", I suppose? Speaking of longer than others, I wonder how the difference in generational times would impact that relationship as the two groups watch for Sauron's return? What is living memory (in Elrond's case) or only a generation or two removed for some Elves seems to have become a cultural duty/responsibility to be "hunters ever of the servants of the Enemy", passed down from one generation of Dunedain to the next.

In any case, sorry to have hijacked your thread, Guillem! We should probably split off to a different thread if folks want to keep musing about the relationship between Rivendell and the Dunadain :)
- Ned Houndswood, Breelander
Richmond Fantasy-Inspired Hiking and Camping (on WordPress and Facebook)
User avatar
Mithdir
Wanderer
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:19 am

Re: New Belt

Post by Mithdir »

Taurinor wrote:
Elleth wrote:I don't think I'd go quite that far, but I think it's not far off. I'd liken it rather to (say) being Gaulish auxiliaries to the Roman legion or Cherokee allies to colonial Britain. There's absolutely communication and mutual aid and mutual respect, you'll absolutely be invited to some state occasions... but that doesn't mean you're going to be welcome to pop in at the Governor's mansion for a spot of tea whenever you feel like it. I don't think the example precisely fits the cultural situation between the Rivendell elves and the Dunedain at the end of the Third Age (there's a much more equal power balance to start with, and a Very Inconvenient Point Of History) - but it's a reasonable starting point for the modern mind to begin to grasp it. .
Ah, interesting! The auxiliary/legionnaire comparison is very helpful to me, thanks! Sort of a attitude of "We're all on the same team, but some of us have been playing for this team longer than others", I suppose? Speaking of longer than others, I wonder how the difference in generational times would impact that relationship as the two groups watch for Sauron's return? What is living memory (in Elrond's case) or only a generation or two removed for some Elves seems to have become a cultural duty/responsibility to be "hunters ever of the servants of the Enemy", passed down from one generation of Dunedain to the next.

In any case, sorry to have hijacked your thread, Guillem! We should probably split off to a different thread if folks want to keep musing about the relationship between Rivendell and the Dunadain :)
Don't worry about it! I'm discovering some interesting points of view, though I don't completely share them. I never got that feel of distance between the rangers and Rivendell. Even though Elrond (in the films) clearly shows his opinion on men "Men are weak" my thought is he's talking about the Ring, i.e. "Men are weak when confronted with the power of the Ring". I am still of the opinion that rangers are welcome in Rivendell. At least until I can see some evidence in the book that either confirms or refutes my view.
"Short cuts make long delays"
User avatar
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 2925
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Of Elves and Men

Post by Elleth »

Ah, interesting! The auxiliary/legionnaire comparison is very helpful to me, thanks! Sort of a attitude of "We're all on the same team, but some of us have been playing for this team longer than others", I suppose?
Soooort of. I think perhaps closer to the "they're not quite our sort, dear" social distance of the British class system, but without the connotations of superiority. (Which is the same reason the "auxiliary" example doesn't quite fit.)

The big thing to remember about elf-human relations I think is elephant in the room that was the drowning of Numenor. Mankind was so envious elves' immortality that they defied Eru himself to try to take the Undying Lands by force. This act was so egregious that the very shape of the world was changed in its wake.

So... think of relations from the elven perspective as something like having a little brother that's a recovering alcoholic. You love him, you enjoy hanging out with him... but if your family is downing three bottles of wine every night at dinner, you might not make a habit of having him over all the time. Not because you don't love him - but because you don't want to constantly be dangling the apple in front of his face.

(This is a good time to insert I think the old folklore traditions of "never eat with the faerie, for if you do, you'll never be able to leave)

For another aspect, now make your "little brother" many years younger - full of energy, bright, but simply without the life experience to appreciate the nuance of your conversations, the subtleties of good manners, etc. That doesn't make him bad, but it does mean his presence can occasionally be wearisome even when he tries his best.

Those are very rough analogies, but at least they've helped me come to understand what I think the Professor was intimating in the social distance we're feeling in conversation.


All that said, I absolutely still think Rangers will ocassionally resupply at Rivendell, and be well received when they do. I suspect Rangers of the Angle and outriders from Imladris will sit and eat and joke with each other in the wild as surely as they'll stand and fight and die beside each other.

... but neither elf nor man ever forgets they're two different peoples, with two different fates - ever so linked as they are.

In any case, sorry to have hijacked your thread, Guillem! We should probably split off to a different thread if folks want to keep musing about the relationship between Rivendell and the Dunadain
It's what we do. :)
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2582
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: New Belt

Post by Manveruon »

I'm really enjoying the discussion about Dunedain/Imladris relations! Perhaps you're right about splitting the thread, because I think it's worthy of its own discussion - especially since the topic seems to come up in conversation not infrequently around here.

As for the rest, I absolutely love the belt! Your work is beautifully clean and finished! And I especially like your idea of folding the flesh side of the leather out instead of in for the fold-over. I live for little unique details like that. I've got one of those buckles from the Iron Ring too, and I'm quite fond of it, though I haven't yet found a use for it. I originally bought it for my wife's Mirkwood Elf garb, but never ended up using it. I may finally have to make a belt for it!

Anyway, very nice! I can't wait to see more of your kit come together!
Maerondir Perianseron, also called “Mickel,” Halfling Friend - Ranger of the Misty Mountains
Post Reply