Where has it got its pocketses?

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Taurinor
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Where has it got its pocketses?

Post by Taurinor »

Pockets!

Pockets are one of those things that I don't think about in my day-to-day life, but as soon as I get kitted up for pre-early modern European reenactment and don't have them, I realize how much I depend on them. Fortunately, the Professor wrote pockets into Middle-earth! Unfortunately, he's not always specific as to where those pockets are located, so I went a-lookin' for mentions of pocket locations in "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings".

The mention of pockets that got me wondering about them was this one, which I noticed for the first time while looking for clothing references in Bree -
Fellowship of the Ring, Book I, Chapter 10: Strider wrote: 'It's addressed plain enough,' said Mr. Butterbur, producing a letter from his pocket…
The only garment specifically attributed to Butterbur is his white apron (Fellowship of the Ring, Book I, Chapter 9: At the Sign of the Prancing Pony"), and while that could potentially have a pocket, I tend to picture it as more of an 18th century (pocketless) style of apron, but that's my own personal mental image - I could be totally wrong!

Because there isn't much description of clothing in Bree (the clothing "in northern parts such as the Shire" described in Letter 211 seems like it would apply, geographically speaking, but it's still rather vague), I decided I would look for potential pocket locations mentioned elsewhere.

A particular pocket features quite prominently in "The Hobbit", but interestingly, I couldn't find any direct mention of Bilbo carrying the ring in a trouser pocket, specifically (although I might have missed it!) - that comes in "The Fellowship of the Ring". The only garment that Bilbo wears that is specifically described as having pockets (that I could find) is his jacket.
The Hobbit, Chapter 16: A Thief in the Night wrote:He drew from a pocket in his old jacket (which he still wore over his mail), crumpled and much folded, Thorin’ s letter that had been put under the clock on his mantelpiece in May!
It is suggested that he might have pockets in his trousers when he searches his pockets for matches -
The Hobbit, Chapter 5: Riddles in the Dark wrote:But in slapping all his pockets and feeling all round himself for matches [Bilbo’s] hand came on the hilt of his little sword— the little dagger that he got from the trolls, and that he had quite forgotten; nor fortunately had the goblins noticed it, as he wore it inside his breeches.
He also appears to have a variety of pockets to choose from when he steals the Arkenstone, which could mean he is wearing multiple pocketed garments -
The Hobbit, Chapter 13: Not at Home wrote:[Bilbo’s] small hand would not close about it, for it was a large and heavy gem; but he lifted it, shut his eyes, and put it in his deepest pocket.
Interestingly, just about everyone seems to have pockets in "The Hobbit", which fits the whimsical, bedtime-story nature (up to a point, anyways) of it.

Dwarves have pockets!
The Hobbit, Chapter 13: Not at Home wrote:But most of the dwarves were more practical: they gathered gems and stuffed their pockets, and let what they could not carry fall back through their fingers with a sigh.
Trolls have pockets!
The Hobbit, Chapter 2: Roast Mutton wrote:Then Bilbo plucked up courage and put his little hand in William’s enormous pocket.
Even Gollum has pockets!
The Hobbit, Chapter 5: Riddles in the Dark wrote:[Gollum] thought of all the things he kept in his own pockets: fish-bones, goblins’ teeth, wet shells, a bit of bat-wing, a sharp stone to sharpen his fangs on, and other nasty things.
I'm guessing from context that the trolls' pockets might be in the back of their trousers, but I don't know where the dwarves have their pockets, and I certainly don't know where Gollum's would be.

The Professor offers a little more pocket precision in "The Lord of the Rings", especially for hobbits. Both Bilbo and Frodo carry the ring in a pocket in their trousers -
Fellowship of the Ring, Book I, Chapter 1: A Long-expected Party wrote:They could all see [Bilbo] standing, waving one hand in the air, the other was in his trouser-pocket.
The Fellowship of the Ring, Book I, Chapter 2: The Shadow of the Past wrote:Frodo took it from his breeches-pocket, where it was clasped to a chain that hung from his belt.
Interestingly, although the hobbits of the Shire wear waistcoats (Bilbo wore a "embroidered silk waistcoat" with "golden buttons" and gifted "a woollen waistcoat" to Old Gaffer Gamgee in The Fellowship of the Ring, Book I, Chapter 1: "A Long-expected Party"), I couldn't find any reference to waistcoat pockets. Given that they have pockets in their jackets and trousers, though, it seems likely that they could also have some in their waistcoats.

The only other pocket that I could find with a location mentioned belonged to Sam -
The Return of the King, Book VI, Chapter 3: Mount Doom wrote:Beside that [Sam] kept only the remnants of their waybread and the water-bottle, and Sting still hanging by his belt; and hidden away in a pocket of his tunic next his breast the phial of Galadriel and the little box that she gave him for his own.
A tunic with a breast pocket seems rather odd to me, but it may be that the garment mentioned is more like a shirt than a medieval tunic. The Professor seems to mostly use the word "shirt" when discussing protective gear, either a "mail-shirt" (worn by multiple members of the Fellowship at various times) or the "shirt of soft leather" worn by Frodo under his mail (The Fellowship of the Ring, Book II, Chapter 6: "Lothlórien"). Frodo is described as wearing "his old weather-stained breeches, tunic, and jacket" in Rivendell (The Fellowship of the Ring, Book II, Chapter 3: "The Ring Goes South"), and since the Professor described the Shire as "more or less a Warwickshire village of about the period of the Diamond Jubilee [which was in 1897]" in Letter 178, it seems unlikely that Frodo would be wearing a medieval garment.

So, what does all that mean for Butterbur's pocket? Honestly, not much, other than perhaps that a trouser pocket might be the safest bet. It was an interesting thing to look into, though!
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Iodo
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Re: Where has it got its pocketses?

Post by Iodo »

You are quite right, there does seem to be no mention of where pockets are in any of the books. That's something that puzzeled me for a while. In the end I came to the conclusion that if even troll's have pockets then the idea must be well enough known in middle earth, for people to sew pockets to clothing where ever it's reasonably practical.

So far my dwarf kit only has two pockets in my linen trousers that are sewn on the side like modern clothing. I don't know if a back pocket would be more fitting but I don't like them (always end up sitting on my phone :oops: ).
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My hobbit cosplay has pockets in both waistcoat and jacket. Jacket pockets are, I think, what Tolkien intended (the quote you found) and this drawing at the end of my addition of the hobbit, which I think is by Tolkien, and shows bilbo with pockets in his jacket.
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I think I only put a pocket in the waistcoat because Bilbo put the ring in a waistcoat pocket in the film, however hobbits seem to have many pockets in the books and, in standard hobbit dress, there doesn't seem to be many places for lots of pockets except jacket, waistcoat and trousers.
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
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Elleth
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Re: Where has it got its pocketses?

Post by Elleth »

I had never deeply thought about this - wow.

A couple thoughts...

I rather think the "pockets" of Gollum and the trolls may simply be animal skin bags tied about the waist. 18th c. ladies' pockets are example enough that a "pocket" needn't necessarily be sewn into a garment. I'd need to do some re-reading before deciding that for certain - I may have too much PJ on the brain thinking of them as scarcely dressed.

For Breelanders - largely thanks to that letter 211 - my mental image for trousers is shifting to Tudor-ish britches. Not so poofy as those worn by a flamboyant pirate, nor so skinny and tailored as 18th c. colonial-era gentlemen's breeches... but somewhere in the "coarsely spun, kinda baggy" space. Sticking a slit pocket in those would be trivial.

Regarding Sam's pocket: my initial thought was a simple patch pocket sewn smack dab onto his tunic, though as anachronistic as the Hobbits are I'd not be surprised if there was more tailoring involved. I picture their shirts as somewhat more like 18th c. men's pullover garments than 19th c. button-up affairs, but either fits the evidence I think.

I'm sure their weskits must have pockets. :)
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Taurinor
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Re: Where has it got its pocketses?

Post by Taurinor »

Elleth wrote:I rather think the "pockets" of Gollum and the trolls may simply be animal skin bags tied about the waist. 18th c. ladies' pockets are example enough that a "pocket" needn't necessarily be sewn into a garment. I'd need to do some re-reading before deciding that for certain - I may have too much PJ on the brain thinking of them as scarcely dressed.
I think that at least William is a reasonably well-covered troll; in addition to having a pocket, he also has sleeves - "He took a big bite off a sheep’s
leg he was roasting, and wiped his lips on his sleeve" (The Hobbit, Chapter 2: "Roast Mutton"). That whole scene has a tone so far from that of the Lord of the Rings (or even the end of The Hobbit) that I almost didn't include it, though - it also features a talking coin purse. You could definitely be right about Gollum's pockets, though!
Elleth wrote:For Breelanders - largely thanks to that letter 211 - my mental image for trousers is shifting to Tudor-ish britches. Not so poofy as those worn by a flamboyant pirate, nor so skinny and tailored as 18th c. colonial-era gentlemen's breeches... but somewhere in the "coarsely spun, kinda baggy" space. Sticking a slit pocket in those would be trivial.
That's the sort of thing I've been using for my kit - I made some breeches that are sort of a hybrid of the Quintfall Hill trousers (late 17th century) and the venetians from Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion 3: The Cut and Construction of Clothes for Men and Women C. 1560-1620" (late Tudor/early Stuart). The latter even had side pockets, so I may add some to my breeches.
Elleth wrote:Regarding Sam's pocket: my initial thought was a simple patch pocket sewn smack dab onto his tunic, though as anachronistic as the Hobbits are I'd not be surprised if there was more tailoring involved. I picture their shirts as somewhat more like 18th c. men's pullover garments than 19th c. button-up affairs, but either fits the evidence I think.
My mental image was something early 19th century - maybe a pullover shirt with a few buttons at the chest, a short band collar, and (now) a patch pocket. No evidence for that level of detail, though, so he could well be wearing something of a more 18th century style!
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