Joining the need wallet club

Hard Kit is all other accoutrements that are not clothing, weapons or armour. This includes pots and tents, and flint & steel, and other things like that.

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caedmon
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Re: Joining the need wallet club

Postby caedmon » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:38 pm

Manveruon wrote:As for the reference to them being tightly sealed... Hmmmm. I’m actually kind of wondering now if it make make more sense to just let the leather case be just that - a case - and then inside that case there would be a much softer, lighter-weight package, either made of waxed cloth or some sort of thin, weatherproofed leather like oiled goatskin. This would be the part that remained sealed, but could be taken out of the leather case entirely as needed. A waxed cloth parcel could even be re-sealed to some extent if opened in the field.



This is my interpretation, Currently, I use waxed paper. Each item is individually wrapped. and then everything goes in a sealed bag, which keeps everything together, and allows me to use the need wallet as my default travel toiletry bag as well.
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Re: Joining the need wallet club

Postby Greg » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:40 pm

That's what I do, too. Waxed paper!
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Re: Joining the need wallet club

Postby Elleth » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:30 pm

I’m actually kind of wondering now if it make make more sense to just let the leather case be just that - a case - and then inside that case there would be a much softer, lighter-weight package, either made of waxed cloth or some sort of thin, weatherproofed leather like oiled goatskin. This would be the part that remained sealed, but could be taken out of the leather case entirely as needed. A waxed cloth parcel could even be re-sealed to some extent if opened in the field.


In truth (heresy!) I think provided one keeps their belt pouch of necessaries close to hand, the need-wallet is somewhat superfluous- one could I think sumply tuck a couple bricks of hardtack behind the back panel of a divided belt pouch and not be too much the worse for it. But a need wallet is in the text, and a need wallet is handy, and so my Tolkien kit will have one.
:mrgreen:

I think were I to tackle the project over now, I think I'd go simpler and smaller. Something very much I think like the "tobacco pouch" on WETA-Aragorn's belt of a soft leather, with a few wafers of good waybread and a tiny cordial flask all stitched up inside a pouch of waxed linen. (In fact in my "head canon" that's exactly what WETA-Aragorn *has* on his belt. )

I've used this technique for easy-open waxed pouches in the past - I don't know if the "pullcord to open" is too modern a concept, bit it does work quite nicely:

Image
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Re: Joining the need wallet club

Postby Manveruon » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:37 pm

Hah! What a novel idea! I may well have to try something just like it!

As for the necessity of a need-wallet vs. any other sort of pouch, I definitely take your meaning, but I also definitely think it makes sense to have a dedicated first-aid and emergency pack always on your person that is never opened except in emergencies. For mine I think I may treat it SPECIFICALLY as a first-aid kid, and skip over the emergency rations, just because in the context I would be using it I wouldn’t really have a need for the cordial and the waybread the way the men of Arnor might have.

(Also, once again, my sincere apologies to BrianGrubbs - I feel like I have completely hijacked your thread :shock: )
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Re: Joining the need wallet club

Postby Ursus » Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:28 am

Elleth wrote:
I’m actually kind of wondering now if it make make more sense to just let the leather case be just that - a case - and then inside that case there would be a much softer, lighter-weight package, either made of waxed cloth or some sort of thin, weatherproofed leather like oiled goatskin. This would be the part that remained sealed, but could be taken out of the leather case entirely as needed. A waxed cloth parcel could even be re-sealed to some extent if opened in the field.


In truth (heresy!) I think provided one keeps their belt pouch of necessaries close to hand, the need-wallet is somewhat superfluous- one could I think sumply tuck a couple bricks of hardtack behind the back panel of a divided belt pouch and not be too much the worse for it. But a need wallet is in the text, and a need wallet is handy, and so my Tolkien kit will have one.
:mrgreen:

I think were I to tackle the project over now, I think I'd go simpler and smaller. Something very much I think like the "tobacco pouch" on WETA-Aragorn's belt of a soft leather, with a few wafers of good waybread and a tiny cordial flask all stitched up inside a pouch of waxed linen. (In fact in my "head canon" that's exactly what WETA-Aragorn *has* on his belt. )

I've used this technique for easy-open waxed pouches in the past - I don't know if the "pullcord to open" is too modern a concept, bit it does work quite nicely:

Image
http://middleearthrangers.org/forum/vie ... 75&p=37353


Perhaps my belt pouch may hit close to the mark. It’s walnut dyed veg tan lined with linen. The rear has two belt keepers while two pieces of waxed linen cord secure It closed. It suits my more rustic style and holds my fire box and striker, 10 feet of good hemp cord, a waxed packet of lanolin soaked wool and a small sharpening stone.
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Re: Joining the need wallet club

Postby BrianGrubbs » Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:27 am

Manveruon wrote:(Also, once again, my sincere apologies to BrianGrubbs - I feel like I have completely hijacked your thread :shock: )


Brother, I am all here for it! Every time this forum gets turned loose on an idea I learn things! I can't think of more enjoyable way to be hijacked.

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Re: Joining the need wallet club

Postby Eofor » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:15 am

Ghostsoldier wrote:There's some great insight in this thread. :P
Rob


I didn't reply because I didn't want to derail the thread, but it seems to have been a hot topic.
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Re: Joining the need wallet club

Postby Elleth » Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:08 pm

Ursus - I really like that one! Might have to give a try in that direction at some point. :mrgreen:

What's going on with the shoulder strap tiedown I see higher up? Is there a hole or two through one of the straps to hold that binding in place?
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Re: Joining the need wallet club

Postby Ursus » Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:54 pm

Elleth wrote:What's going on with the shoulder strap tiedown I see higher up? Is there a hole or two through one of the straps to hold that binding in place?


Correct, two holes on the bottom side. It is actually used as an anchor point to tie the straps of my water skin, bedroll strap, and quiver strap together. Basically it helps the whole load stay in that comfortable “sweet spot” if I crouch or bend at the waist. It also helps to keep everything together and immediately return it to said sweet spot should I remove everything and need to grab it in a hurry.
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Re: Joining the need wallet club

Postby Cimrandir » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:46 pm

Elleth wrote:Oh - also Cimrandir, I don't *think* so.

The references to the need-wallet state the contents are sealed against the weather and drawn forth only at great need (hence the name). The athelas that Aragorn pulls from the pouch at his waist has been freshly picked.

In my experience, there are three roles for containers carried in the wild:

1. last-ditch sealed "just in case" survival kit. This stuff is small, super-portable, and hardly ever touched. Ideally it's small and light and you wear it on your person *all* the time you're in the wild.
2. routine-use tools/necessaries: fire kit, coin purse, bug salve, that kinda thing. You're in and out of this pouch all the time.
3. a rough carrier for things you find in the wild and want to bring with you: tinder, wild herbs, that kinda thing.

I think you generally want those three things to be distinct containers.

If your sealed survival supplies are in the same pouch as your tools, you're wearing that seal every time you're pulling things in and out. And it's just something *in the way* when you're reaching for something else.
Foraged stuff tends to be messy - put that in the same pouch as either of the others and you're covering your kit with broken grass cruft, berry juice, or whatever else you've picked up along the way.

Now, obviously it's something of a luxury to have three (or more) containers in the wild: I'm sure you'll find folk from our neolithic ancestors to 19th century mountain men to modern woodsbums throwing everything in one bag and calling it a day.
.. but I still think experience tends to induce folk to separate out things a bit.


In retrospect, I think my needwallet is still on the large side, though how to get it smaller and still have room for a couple crackers and a cordial I've not yet figured out. Eventually I'll give it another go, but it'll be a while I fear.



Many good points. I was pretty sure I was off base but it's nice to be confirmed by those with more experience than I. Thanks!
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Re: Joining the need wallet club

Postby Greg » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:07 pm

Elleth wrote:In retrospect, I think my needwallet is still on the large side, though how to get it smaller and still have room for a couple crackers and a cordial I've not yet figured out. Eventually I'll give it another go, but it'll be a while I fear.

I think one of the tricks with size is that it takes a great deal more mass of wafers made using the techniques and foodstuffs available to US in this day and age to create something that has ANY sustaining properties than it would have in 3rd Age Middle-earth, given the superior knowledge and plausibly magical materials at hand. My wallet is roughly the same height and width as yours, but is actually deeper front-to-back to accommodate my current plain glass phial and a sizable mound of whole-grain hardtack. Enough to be, well...useful? If I made it smaller to have more of a "packet" feel like as described in the 1A reference, I feel like its contents, being non-elven and quite 7A Grocery store-spawned, would be negligible at best. So since I'm carrying it, it might as well be big enough to be useful. Given that it's carried at the small of my back, it never gets in the way, and actually provides a rather nice pad from a stiff tree trunk when leaning while sitting on the ground, so I haven't felt a need to go smaller.

Added bonus: since it's nicely sized, it has a folded map of Middle-earth on parchment tucked inside. Someday, I'll replace it with a regional map, seeing as having a map of the entire known world might not be plausible in Eriador, but it's nice to have! There's actually a glimpse of my map on the cover of the last Edge of the Wild newsletter.
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Re: Joining the need wallet club

Postby Manveruon » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:11 am

The more I see of the evolution of various people's kits around here, the more I'm starting to feel that all or nearly all of my various containers, pouches, bags, packs, etc. ought to be soft-bodied rather than hard-bodied. It's difficult to explain just WHY that is, but somehow it just feels... more... real? Like Ursus' various bags above, and to some extent also Elleth's recent-ish belt pouch, and of course snapsacks, waterskins, etc. Therefore, for my need-wallet, I may opt to try and make mine a bit less rigid than most folks have designed theirs. I'll probably still try to use some fairly sturdy leather, but the side gussets will almost certainly be accordion style, like Jack's, and I may opt to make the whole thing somewhat flexible, which should also help it conform to my body a bit more since it will be worn directly along the belt.

As for contents, I feel like if this is STRICTLY an emergency supply, not a whole lot is actually needed in terms of sustenance, because in desperate situations just a little can go a long way. But like you've said, the people of Middle-earth probably also had access to more effective emergency rations. With that in mind though, it only gives me more reason to consider sticking with a strictly modern first-aid kit inside my own wallet - including some more souped-up modern emergency rations, possibly. Since once again this wouldn't be something I would be opening up very often, if at all, it would be a great place to keep all that stuff that didn't really fit in with the rest of my period gear.

EDIT: Hah! Looks like this second part is being covered specifically in another thread now, so I'll copy and paste this in there as well!

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