ARROWS AND HOOKS

[RikJohnson]

deleted at request.

[Eothain]

I don't usually take my bow, quiver or arrows with me when I go out to public land. Sometimes I don't even take my sword. I do always have my axe and seax on me, and a utility knife. I know weapon laws aren't so bad in Missouri, but I would rather not risk getting any gear confiscated - especially with how expensive the stuff is.
It's a bummer that we can't just walk around anywhere we want to in full kit, but there is always that one person or more who ruined it for the rest of us.

[Eledhwen]

I follow the law. Around here that means not wandering about with *any* kind of weapon outside of hunting season..and one had best have licenses. I get a Sportsmans' License each year so permit wise I am set. The laws here are the reason my photos rarely show weapons..although some have had a bow, it is almost always in a sock without the string and the 'arrows' are fletched dowels without points for appearance (they are otherwise identical to my hunting arrows). Not really worth risking the rather stiff penalties for violating the law. It only takes one Jittery Jane or Squeamish Sam to get one in hot water.

Eledhwen

[Manveruon]

It's good timing of you to bring up this topic right now, because it' something I was going to ask about, myself. When my friend, Bryan, and I go up trekking in July, we plan to carry bow and sword with us along the way. It's National Forest Service land, so theoretically there should be no issue in doing so. We plan on fishing a little, so a fishing license is a must, but we do not plan on hunting - our bows will be strictly for show and/or stump shooting well away from the path, or any people who may be present. I have searched and searched, and I can find no indication that any of these things are disallowed, so I feel pretty good about it. However, I am concerned that if a forest service ranger sees our bows, he or she may assume we are hunting, and cause us some serious unpleasantness, accordingly. This fear is compounded by the fact that literally EVERY time I have gone out in public wearing ANY kind of costume for the last two years (especially ones involving weapons, but also ones completely devoid of anything of the sort) I have had a negative run-in with law enforcement. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Which is especially troublesome since I generally go out of my way to ensure I am polite, non-threatening, and in compliance with local rules and laws. I'm not a trouble-maker - honestly - but lately trouble has seemed to find me.

Anyway, what I'm wondering is, do you guys think I should get a small-game hunting license or such, just to cover my butt, even though I have no intention of actually hunting? My thought is: YES. But I'd rather not spend the money if I don't have to. At the very least I will try to contact the local ranger's office beforehand, just so our sudden appearance in their woods isn't a completely unexpected (and unwelcome) surprise.

[RikJohnson]

... It's National Forest Service land, so theoretically there should be no issue in doing so. We plan on fishing a little, so a fishing license is a must, but we do not plan on hunting - our bows will be strictly for show and/or stump shooting well away from the path, or any people who may be present. I have searched and searched, and I can find no indication that any of these things are disallowed,.

My experience is that cops are little more than neo-nazi's who wear their badge on their {censored}. This is based on being a poilice consultant (always got stiffed of my fee because i was always right), working with police both military and civilian cops over 26 years and having a cop for a father. When my son was killed the local police refused to investigate his death unless I paid them $20,000 to cover their personal costs.
However, the police in Ireland are actually polite and pleasant.

My experience with park Rangers, both state and Federal is the exact opposite. I have never met a bad park ranger. They realize that their job is to protect the park and help the tourists so I always have had a good relationship with them, even when I am armed.

That said, if you carry target points, they cannot accuse you of hunting, because you are stump-shooting. If you carry broadheads, they assume that you are hunting deer or such because .. well why carry a hunting weapon unless you are hunting? Blunts are the same. So I carry my arrows with target points but can pull the tip off and replace it with a swallowtail or my new orc-killer for pics.
When I did some pics on Mt Lemmon, I had broadheads and bodkins but was in costume so the rangers smiled, waved and went on.

Personally, when I visit a park, I visit the ranger-shack, explain that I am camping, kayaking, ranging, hiking and ask if there is anything I need to know (animals, closed areas, etc) . They are always helpful "stay away from the upper Priata as it is eagle nesting season" or " there are bears in that area so..." Also, if they see your sword and bow, they may ask to examine it but frankly, from my experience, they are more curious than official. They may even drop by occasionally and ask "how's it going, you ok?"

I think that park rangers have two main fears... 1) you will leave your poop on the ground exposed to spread disease or 2) your campfire may burn the forest down. Ease these and you will have apleasant experience.

[MasterStrong]

Wow. Maybe this goes to show that Phoenix and Tucson might as well be in different countries. I lived in Phoenix for the better part of my life, involved in several 'recreationist' and theatrical groups, and have nothing but pleasant experiences with the police. That said, your advice about checking in with the local ranger station is spot on. Nobody is better informed about the local conditions. I doubt any of the Dunedain wouldn't spend time to get the local take on any place they were heading into.

[Eledhwen]

Most of the Wildlife folk I know and have met are very laid back folk. They have seen me with my bow when it was out and strung just for pictures and haven't had a problem with it. On the other hand, state troopers seeing it in the car have gotten rather prickly over it.

Here, stump shooting is not allowed. Blunts and Broadheads are only to be used in hunting season. No bowfishing or spear fishing. Spears are simply outlawed entirely, along with double edged weapons. Technically, any edged blade over two and one half inches long is illegal, so if they really wanted to they could come after you for your kitchen cutlery. They don't, but I'd not want to be the one who they came to search. Cutlery for the kitchen would be the least of my worries. I have collected swords and such since my teen years...and I have made my own for a lot of years. Got a fair few bits.

If you check in with Federal park rangers, you should be okay. They tend to be cool folk. For the rest....be careful of your local enforcement types.

Eledhwen, from the Peoples' Democratic Republic of Massachusetts. *sigh*

[ineffableone]

The only times I have seen a Ranger was while in parking lots, or official camp grounds. Never out in the woods. Even when I worked trail maintenance I never saw Rangers out on the trails.

You know I have never even thought about this issue. I commonly take broad heads and blunts in my quiver when I go out shooting in the woods. I can't see how blunts can be considered hunting only, since they are commonly used as stumping arrows tips.

I have never hunted out of season or without a license. And never put any thought into carrying tools to hunt as being illegal. And I do even shoot my broad heads some times when I find a nice soft target I can pull them back out of. Because how else can you train to use a broad head except to shoot it in practice? Personally if any Ranger tried to cite me for having hunting arrows, I would fight it. Unless they caught me with poached animals (which they wont because I don't hunt illegally), I don't think it will stick in court.

As for hooks, I carry a fishing kit all the time when out in the woods. You have to be in possession of illegally caught fish to be arrested or ticketed for illegal fishing. Possession of the fishing gear is not illegal.

[Eledhwen]

Each state will have its own laws and rules. I just happen to live in a state that is seriously uptight. It wasn't that way when I left with the Corps, but it certainly became that way while I was away...and has gotten worse since. Looking at going somewhere with some sanity once I have the chance.

I was fortunate. When I got home I had all my stuff and was ignorant of the changes. Some folks and police who knew me from younger years gave me the heads up so things are now done very on the down low. The one break is hunting season, when I can cart the things about in the state forests and wildlife management areas.

We never had environmental police when I left. Then there are the Department of Conservation and Recreation, the Department of Public Safety, the SBI, the State Troopers, the county Sheriffs (who are cool), and the various local police departments who vary wildly in their attitudes. Oh yeah, and the Forestry and Wildlife folks.

So yeah, it might be a good thing to at least know what the rules are. Most places won't be like this state, thank goodness. Just be mindful that one Nervous Nellie can cause a world of hurt. I still do most of what I want, I'm just very careful about it.

Eledhwen

[Manveruon]

All very good points.

I think, for my own part, I will contact the ranger service before we go out, at the very least, and just let them know that two funny-lookin' guys in funny-lookin' clothes will be hiking on one of their trails for a few days, and that we have no intention of poaching or any other illegal activity. I'll probably skip getting a small game license then, as I doubt it will actually do me any good, and like Ineffableone said, it seems unlikely that they will be able to prosecute us if we haven't actually taken any game illegally. Seems like all we'll really need is a fishing license, which is fine by me, since I'd actually like to fish if I can. That said, I'll make sure to do my research and cover my butt ahead of time, just in case.

[MasterStrong]

Agreed. As much as I am a fan of asking forgiveness instead of permission, with these kind of issues it's best to be up front with the local Rangers. Most figure that if you were going to be poaching, you wouldn't bother giving them a heads up.