What's in a Ranger's quiver?

A central place to talk about weapons and armour, as it relates to your kit. This is where you show it of or talk about making it. Discussing the relative merits of types of weapons goes in the WMA section.

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Elleth
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Elleth » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:31 am

Now that my quiver is finally done, I thought I’d show off the arrows I finally settled on to fill it.

merf-arrowheads.jpg
merf-arrowheads.jpg (88.88 KiB) Viewed 7906 times


From left to right:

Roving head: 2 mounted, 1 carried. Typically in the hand: this is my default carry-around point, and it’s a GREAT traditional point for stump shooting. Haven’t lost it yet! I don't think it's as unlosable as modern judos are claimed to be, but it's pretty robust and bounces or sinks just a tad even on rotted-up stumps in the woods. At some point I may look into small game regulations and try my luck on a bird or squirrel, but for now only the stumps are in danger.
:)

“Chippenham” intermediate head: 4 mounted, 3 carried in the quiver. These are a nice middle ground between bodkins and broadheads: a nice default when you don’t know what you might need extras for.

Bodkin points: 4 mounted, 2 carried. Perfect for mailled orc of course… and conveniently enough also strawbale targets.

Swallowtail broadheads: 2 mounted, none carried. Deer pass through our property enough I probably *could* practice up to hunt if I wanted to, but we’ve enough butchery on our hands with the livestock so I leave these at home. Still though, I figured “in world” we’d have a few of these on hand so I made them up anyhow to get the hang of.

The weights are all different - the swallowtail and roving point especially are rather heavy. Between that and a bow a bit heavy for me, I’m still shooting at fairly close range: but I’ve not lost any arrows yet, so they’re close enough I seem to be adjusting okay.

This assortment pretty much mirrors my modern quiver: mostly field points, a couple judo points (one in hand) for stumps, and one broadhead in reserve should the dogs get into a tangle with a coyote or the like. One thing I do with my modern arrows that I’d like to carry over to these is some kind of indicator on the nock. That way I can tell at a glance (or better yet a touch) what I’ve got in hand.

I’ve thought about slightly sharpening the nock end of my the bodkin arrows, and maybe sanding a flat stumpy end on my roving points. I’ve not done anything yet however - still mulling the idea.

Anyone tried something similar and have a schema to share?



Specifics for those interested:

Horn-reinforced, fletched arrowshafts were purchased on eBay from user razorstonearchery: they were sold as “Ash Wood English Replica Arrows for Longbow or Recurve.” Brian Daniels at Razor Stone was quite happy to do a little trimming on the fletching to “fantasy” them up, and is a pleasure to work with. I’m very VERY happy with his work!

Arrowheads:
(dimensions approximate: best I could get with a small drafting ruler and kitchen scale)

Standard: ⅜ oz : 10g
2 ¾” long, ⅝” wide
70mm long, 16mm wide
Chippenham Type 1 Arrowhead
(GDFB, via by-the-sword.com)

Roving: ¾ oz : 20g
2 ½” long, 1 ½” wide
64mm long, 38mm wide
Roving Head Medieval Arrowhead
(GDFB, via by-the-sword.com)

Broadhead: ⅞ oz : 25g
3 ⅜” long, 1 15/16” wide
85mm long, 49mm wide
eBay find from some time back, I expect Indian or pakistani. Ordered from seller “everydaysavings” on eBay under the label “Medieval Renaissance Archers Companion Iron Broadtail Arrowhead”

Bodkin: ⅜ oz / 12g
2 ½” long, ⅜” wide
65mm long / 10mm wide
Long Bodkin Medieval Glue-On Arrow Points

(I actually wanted Historic Enterprises Arrowhead, Bodkin, "type 7", but they were sold out. The 3 Rivers heads have some aggravatingly modern machining artifacts underneath the grey patina that will take some work to polish out, so I think I’ll use the few I have and order some HE heads when they’re back in stock as replacements. On the bright side, the 3R heads have nicely concave faces, so I’m sure they’d work exactly as designed.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
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Manveruon
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Manveruon » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:04 am

Great write-up! And beautiful arrowheads! So glad it's all coming together for you!

For indexes on the nocks, I tie a small knot in the linen thread wrapping on my own arrows. It could work the same here, if you mix it up a bit. For instance - No knot for the roving points, one knot for the small broadheads, two knots (one just above the other) for the bodkins, and then... hmmm... Toughie on the last one, because I think anything above two knots would get confusing....
But anyway, yeah... like... braille for your arrows, haha.
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Elleth
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Elleth » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:32 pm

I LOVE that idea: tactile but non-destructive to the shaft. Thank you so much, I'll give it a try! :)
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
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Manveruon
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Manveruon » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:12 am

Absolutely! I'm excited to know if it works for you!
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Kortoso » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:30 pm

I wonder about that "roving head" (type 6). How do you draw it from the quiver without pulling out all the other arrows?
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Elleth
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Elleth » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:10 pm

I wonder about that "roving head" (type 6). How do you draw it from the quiver without pulling out all the other arrows?


I don't. :mrgreen:

When I'm on the move, I've only one, and it's in my hand (usually on the string). I believe I've managed to put it back in my quiver OUTSIDE of the arrow sock, but it's not going in the sock itself (or out, I expect) without taking everything off.
I'd originally thought I might do the Urthgard trick and stick the head in the "boot" of my quiver and secure the shaft with one of the carriage straps, but in practice it doesn't seem a good solution. I'm still mulling some possible hacks, but presently I'm just going with "if I ever need to pull out a sharp point, I've bigger problems than keeping track of my roving arrow."

We'll see. It's a process. :)
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
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Elleth
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Elleth » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:41 pm

For what it's worth, the 3Rivers bodkins seem to be tempered REALLY hard. Here's the point I tried to pull out of my target: the socket just kept snapping off like glass:

merf-broken-3rivers-bodkin-point.jpg
merf-broken-3rivers-bodkin-point.jpg (105.72 KiB) Viewed 7726 times


You can also see the machining marks better in this light. Oh well - they'll do until the Historic Enterprises heads get back in stock.
(FWIW, the Chippenham head I had to dig out of the target as well came out in perfect shape)
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
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Manveruon
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Manveruon » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:31 pm

Oh dear! That certainly won't do :/
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Greg » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:42 pm

I find that rather surprising...I doubted they were made of any sort of truly harden-able steel. I once read somewhere (don't quote me) that bodkins weren't treated in the same way as blades for cheap production, and that their shape was what made them function, rather than any sort of extensive heat-treat process. I'm going to link this to Odigan and see if he knows anything...
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Peter Remling » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:26 am

This may have been inadvertently hardened by the grinding. Note the circular grinds on each face of the bodkin. Normally grinding wouldn't be an issue but the bodkins are so small they would heat up pretty quick and as we know hardening or ruining a temper can occur at as low a temperature as 350 degrees F. If they were done quickly, one side, then the others in rapid succession, they could easily achieve the temperature needed. If they were then allowed to air cool at room temperature, it could result in the bodkins displaying the semi-crystaline structure.
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Greg » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:40 am

Would a simple into-then-out-of the flame on a stove for a basic anneal possibly solve this?
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Peter Remling » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:22 am

Quite possible. Heat the heads until they are glowing red. and drop them in a tin pie pan with motor oil or old coffee can. Do this away from any flammable substances and keep your hand clear as you can get a little flare up around the bodkin.

If you plan on trying it use the broken bodkin as your test case. After it cools down pull it out from the oil with pliers and tap it gently by the faulted area. If it bends it worked, if it cracks/chips more it didn't.

At least this way you're not ruining another usable bodkin.
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Odigan » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:49 pm

There is a bit of confusion about heat treatment here. Bringing them to a red heat and quenching them in oil will harden them. Not as hard as if they were quenched in water or brine, but still much harder than they need to be to endure impact stress. Annealing is bringing to heat and cooling slowly, producing the opposite - its least hard state. Tempering is the operation you want, wherein controlled heat is applied for a given duration to bring the hardness to the desired level (below the ultimate hardness achieved from quenching). This can be done in a conventional oven, and for arrowheads I'd suggest starting at ~450 degrees F for an hour or two. This should produce a bright yellow/bronze coloured oxide coating on polished metal.

As for historical arrowheads, like historical armour, I'm sure they varied quite a lot in material quality and manufacturing method leading to potential or realized hardness. However, from what I've read bodkins were harder than armour typically, on average, being something in the 30-40 Rockwell C range. This isn't very hard, really (about the same as normalized steel), but because of their small size it was likely that they were just quenched when made and having a relatively low carbon content that's as hard as they got. Larger pieces of armour on the other hand, went through extensive forming operations, and multiple heatings would have decarburized them to the point of iron in many cases, and because of their size, further processing could be difficult. So it's not so much that the bodkins were harder, but that the armour was softer, in my estimation, given the same starting materials. It is also possible that bodkins could have been easily case hardened (again because of their small size), though I have no idea offhand if this was done, and doubt it would have been for something that was produced in the tens of thousands.
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Re: What's in a Ranger's quiver?

Postby Ringulf » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:46 am

Lovely job on those arrows Elleth!
Did you ever work out the indexing issue? Manveruon's suggestion was great and had the advantage of being able to tell in the dark, however If you are using natural horn or bone knocks, or even the white plastic ones, leather dye will give them a cast if not a deep stain and a dip is all you need. I should say, if you are out shooting in the dark you have a lot more to worry about! :twisted: :evil: :shock:
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