Military structure of Rangers of the Reunited Kingdom

[Daerir]

I think it would depend on the situation. If its a small scouting mission, maybe two or four. If its a sabotage mission, more like 8 to 12 would be needed. Assassinations one or two. In a time of full out war. I think parties of ten with a squad leader would be good.

[Tomcat1066]

Stormraven and I talked about this one earlier today, and I've been thinking about it.

FWIW, I don't recall anything in any of the books that explicitly states what a ranger unit might look like. However, I know I got the impression that they were individuals or pairs while out ranging, usually whatever floated their boats, but were part of a much larger group that could be called upon for things like defending the last outpost before Gondor from the rampaging orcs.

As far as something like a table of organization and equipment goes, we might be better served by looking at what ranger units looked like in a historical context and base it off of that.

I'd be interested in hearing additional takes on this though.

[Taurinor]

A group of four Ithilien Rangers found Sam and Frodo in The Two Towers, so that seems to support that they moved in small groups, at least when tracking - they were hunting down Smeagol, if I remember correctly.

As for equipment (or at least weapons), they were described thusly: "Two had spears in their hands with broad bright heads. Two had great bows, almost of their own height, and great quivers of long green-feathered arrows. All had swords at their sides..."

So, two long-distance weapons, two medium-distance if the spears are of a throwing variety, and they all have close combat weapons.

[Ringulf]

This may flesh out one possibility of that scene, I happen to truly love the Hildebrandt Brothers interpretation and costuming, I know it is pre-PJ but it has always rung true to me since they are the first images I ever ascribed to Tolkiens work.



In this interpretation we may be a spear light and a bow or two heavy but you can't see all of the Ranger farthest back, and there may be another out of the picture altogether as Farimir himself may not have been one of the four man squad to have found them. (Oh yeah, duh! the missing guy is taking the picture!)

All in all we have a small group with a Captain/leader and it holds true to size and weaponry. (and I think the masks are way cool too!!)

[Stormraven]

I've always like their artwork too Ringulf. Our Ranger group is really coming together. We've done a lot of administrative work these last couple of days. Tomcat 1066 has been elected our Captain and we're fleshing out positions from medic to communication to forward scouts. Tried to do some research today on rank insignia - you know - just because. Evidently in the movie, Gondorian soldiers used different helms to designate rank. Now we're not going to be wearing nice shiny helms in the woods so we've been tossing around other ideas. Tom and I found some six-pointed star rivets - about 15 mm or so in diameter available really cheap from China. We thought about attaching them to a black leather strap that would hang from the belt and could be removed if needed. Number of stars would designate rank. The reason for the star is we know Rangers of the North wore star brooches. There is some discrepancy on the number of points used in Gondor. Research says that the individual banners flown on the ships had one star each of stars with six points. These ships bore the Palantiri or seeing stones and were seven ships in total. This, I believe is the meaning of the seven stars on the flag. Problem is, when Tolkien drew the original coat of arms for Gondor, he drew five-pointed stars. So now, you get a number of different flags / shields / etc. with different stars. Another idea might be some kind of brooch but since that was listed really only for Rangers of the North, I steered away from it. Anyway, would appreciate your thoughts guys. You're great.
Let me just say this too. It's really refreshing to be able to talk about such things with others in so much detail. I don't know anywhere else we could do this. This forum is truly a blessing.

[Ringulf]

Perhaps not metal helms, but there could be leather helms or if we wanted to travel light a headband /leather and metal circlet could be very nice and I would be happy to make them for the new group!
The belt favor is a great idea too, we use them in the SCA for Archery and Thrown Weapons Rangers we have a black favor with a gold rim and gold arrow facing down.
(Tragically most wear them on the back of their belts, so I have started refering to them as the "Deliveries in the rear" signs.)

[Stormraven]

That was one thing I considered Ringulf. Good idea. I will refer you to Tomcat 1066 on this as I've reassigned myself to the Quartermaster Corps and he is now the Captain. I'll let him know about your post and maybe you two can talk it over.

[Tomcat1066]

Perhaps not metal helms, but there could be leather helms or if we wanted to travel light a headband /leather and metal circlet could be very nice and I would be happy to make them for the new group!

That could be very, very cool. Somewhere around here, I've got my old AOA circlet, but darned if I know where. There really are a lot of options with something like that too.

The belt favor is a great idea too, we use them in the SCA for Archery and Thrown Weapons Rangers we have a black favor with a gold rim and gold arrow facing down.

Kind of my thinking on them. Wore more than a few of them during my SCA days so many moons ago.

(Tragically most wear them on the back of their belts, so I have started refering to them as the "Deliveries in the rear" signs.)

[/quote]

Like the nickname.

However, I will note that we need to insure everyone wears their in the front.

[Udwin]

A group of four Ithilien Rangers found Sam and Frodo in The Two Towers, so that seems to support that they moved in small groups, at least when tracking - they were hunting down Smeagol, if I remember correctly.

Just went back and reread Book 4 Chapter 4. The primary reason for the Rangers' presence "so far afield" (from Anduin) was the ambush against the Haradrim coming up from the south; the four who converged on Sam and Frodo's position seem to have split off from the main group in order to find the source of the smoke from the smouldering cookfire.
In the next chapter we read that "indeed all the survivors of the foray were now gathered...two or three hundred strong."
While this gives us a good idea (factoring in losses) of how many men at a time Faramir might command as Captain, unfortunately this doesn't really reveal any new specifics about the organization of the Ithilien Rangers, although I think it makes more sense that Faramir's force traveled to the ambush site in small groups like the ones who investigated Sam's smoke.
If you want take something away from the passage, I would suggest organizing your group around squads of four, for which we have a documented precedent.

As for specific ranks, I had hoped the Disaster of the Gladden Fields would be of use, but all I found were
ohtar, 'warrior, soldier' and a more high-ranking roquen, 'knight'.

[Taurinor]

Ah, thanks Udwin. I remembered the quote, but not so well the context.

[Tomcat1066]

If you want take something away from the passage, I would suggest organizing your group around squads of four, for which we have a documented precedent.

That sounds like a pretty good idea. We can make some extrapolations from there if need be.

[Rifter]

I must admit,
Assigning military rankings to forum users isn't my cup of ginger ale. Perhaps I am misreading things. If this is something you yourself wish to do for you and your peers who agree to it in your area or such then I think that's more then fine. However a lot of us have served in our own countries respective service and have either retired or ended our terms maybe because we tired of calling people Sir or got tired of being called it ourselves. Also a lot of us seem to be involved in medieval and other types of re enactment and again there are rankings for those too. I have to say I didn't take up ranger craft and come here to meet like minded folk just so I could be classified in a rank.

Rangers aren't military, at least the ones most here think of. They are protectors of the common folk, I wouldn't even say they're militia. They are simple parties of men who are skilled in things other cannot or will not do. I get having a party leader and am happy with that chap being called Captain. But Captain is for me where that ends, no Generals or rubbish of that sort. If there is going to be Captains then the men they work alongside should elect them. A lot us are spread around the world so how does one judge who here is what rank? Anyone who has been through any type of rank increase can tell you it's not always the greatest thing to experience while rewarding it's still hard to do via online. I actually like how the forum calculates things, you get things like wanderer, wayfarer, Dunedin etc.

Id be happy with something like that. Maybe we do category lists, if your skills or hobbies fall more into the one column you would be a Fletcher perhaps or if say the sword is more your forte(there's a few who get that joke) then your a Wayfarer or something. Game of Thrones has Stewards, Rangers etc. I think that sort of classification would be far more easy going and accepted by many here. If there are groups of us near by where they see each other often then if you want to form squads or companies then great. But rangers walk lonely roads because were at our best when we're few. Start adding military rankings and you have a totally new mindset which may hinder the purpose of the group. There are people here who may not even want to be rangers, they just have hobbies that keep them in line with a lot of the ranger skills, but doesn't mean that's something they want to be. If that makes sense

Again I could be looking way further into this then what might be being suggested. I'm much more of the thought process that members where rings of barahir with their kit or wear a silver star on their jerkins or cloaks or something or have a handshake. Something like that so when you do see another one of us say at a neighboring faire or trip then you can tell who is a ranger and who is a costumer/ re-enactor. I mean to even be a member here you have answer questions to prove you know a few things at least about Middle Earth Rangers. I'd like to keep that line of thinking going personally. Thank you kindly for your time and I'm not trying to say your wrong, just my feelings on the topic of rankings here.

[Ringulf]

Yeah no need to worry, Rangers Tomcat and Stormraven are only proposing this for their own group and asking for input, No Draft, you may remain Mr Rifter for the time being!

[Rifter]

heh there's no Mr either. Just Rifter

[Ringulf]

Just an ex military use of a civilian title. You no longer have a rank before enlistment or after discharge you are just Mr or Miss Or Mrs, I guess nowadays you would be Ms if female.