Prepper vs Ranger

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Eric C
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Prepper vs Ranger

Post by Eric C »

Okay, so I have to be very careful with this post. It actually arises from conversations with an acquaintance I have. I've known the guy for years and - quite frankly - over the last few years I think the guy has lost his ever-loving mind. Here's where I have to be careful. The crux of our conversations have been politically based. He has all these wild theories about government that aren't worth mentioning here (not to mention could be against the rules). So he has become a "Doomsday prepper." His words, not mine. I've learned to tell the guy something to the effect of how learning the skills of a ranger are preparing me for the same things in a different way. This seems to satisfy him and he leaves me alone. Please understand, if you are a prepper, I am NOT saying you are off your rocker. What does it hurt to be prepared? What if Big Brother does do something stupid? What if a natural disaster hits and takes out your utilities? What if radical Yada-Yadas take out our power grid? You are prepared. I am strictly speaking of this one guy that I think is nuttier than a fruitcake. Not all preppers.


That being said, I've thought a lot about this lately. How could our skills help us if something does go wrong? How does our recreation of Middle Earth Rangers help us survive a more hostile world where others may fail? Let me see if I can put all of this into words. Please understand that this is my opinion and you can change that opinion with sound logic.

Stockpiling: I saw an article some years ago that basically said you've got one guy who has spent thousands on the perfect weapons platform, built his bunker, stockpiled his necessities and drilled until he could do everything he needed to do within seconds of getting the word that it has come to an end. On the other hand, his neighbor has gone to Walmart, bought a hundred dollar .22 and a $10 scope and simply watched. When it hit the fan, the guy with the $100 rifle waits and pops the guy that has drilled relentlessly and takes everything he left behind. Sounds like my luck. :mrgreen:

Is stockpiling bad? Absolutely not. It is a good thing to have stuff put back for a hard day. If something happens, you and yours are ready. You survive, and do it pretty well. But let's say something catastrophic has happened. It takes a long time for order to be restored. The stores have all been looted. Your generators have burned up all of the gas you had set back in reserve. What now?

Hunting/gathering: This will certainly fall into the category of ranger skills. To supplement your food stores it would be good to know how to hunt with everything from snares to cannons . . . okay, not cannons . . . maybe. What about recognizing edible wild plants? I've seen a thread or two about this already. These are skills that I would certainly want in my bag of tricks if it goes south. Also a small garden wouldn't be a bad idea.

Weapons usage: What if (God forbid) things turn hostile? I have another acquaintance that I was talking to once about gunfights and how they happen up close and personal. He said, "If I can't reach out about a hundred yards and hit a man in the eye, then I don't want anything to do with it." Mmmm okay, in the state of North Carolina during our current times, if you shoot a man at that distance anywhere on the body, including the eye, you are going to be VERY hard pressed to prove self-defense. You're going to prison for murder. But in that world, wouldn't it be best to know how to use and maintain a variety of ranged weapons from firearms to spears to bow and arrows?

What about when it gets up close and personal? An Orc has managed to get in your face. A good sword/staff/stick/knife could be a great equalizer. And let's not forget about your hands/body. Train. Train hard. Train like your life depends on it because it may.

Fire: I can't believe I almost forgot fire making. Fire is life in a survival situation. There are various ways to make a fire. There are various modern fire makers. What happens when the matches, or the fuel in your lighter runs out? I repeat: Fire is life. Flint and steel or maybe another primitive method will keep you warm and alive.

Now what about sellable skills? Okay, for me that would be bladesmithing and some leather work. These would certainly come in handy as bartering took hold as an acceptable form of trade again.

Now, I'm sure I've overlooked some things. But I think I just made up my list of skills to work on for 2017.

So, what do you think? What suggestions do you have? Where have I strayed from the mark? Quite frankly, I've been on the forum since its start and shamefully, I've probably grown as a ranger less than any of you. I plan to change that in this coming year.

Oh, and don't let the radical Yada-Yadas anywhere near the power grid. :lol:
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Re: Prepper vs Ranger

Post by Elleth »

Once upon a time I heard an army guy explain why they still trained with bayonets in the age of laser-guided everything. It was an attitude thing he said - they wanted to make the kind of people that were able and willing to run into a fight with a sharp stick.

I think our Rangery skills are probably on the same order. If your life or the lives of our family actually depended on the outcome, you'd use modern methods.
But I like to think it's a good thing to have people out there intentionally doing things the hard old way to stay sharp. :)
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Re: Prepper vs Ranger

Post by Le-Loup »

Eric C wrote:Okay, so I have to be very careful with this post. It actually arises from conversations with an acquaintance I have. I've known the guy for years and - quite frankly - over the last few years I think the guy has lost his ever-loving mind. Here's where I have to be careful. The crux of our conversations have been politically based. He has all these wild theories about government that aren't worth mentioning here (not to mention could be against the rules). So he has become a "Doomsday prepper." His words, not mine. I've learned to tell the guy something to the effect of how learning the skills of a ranger are preparing me for the same things in a different way. This seems to satisfy him and he leaves me alone. Please understand, if you are a prepper, I am NOT saying you are off your rocker. What does it hurt to be prepared? What if Big Brother does do something stupid? What if a natural disaster hits and takes out your utilities? What if radical Yada-Yadas take out our power grid? You are prepared. I am strictly speaking of this one guy that I think is nuttier than a fruitcake. Not all preppers.


That being said, I've thought a lot about this lately. How could our skills help us if something does go wrong? How does our recreation of Middle Earth Rangers help us survive a more hostile world where others may fail? Let me see if I can put all of this into words. Please understand that this is my opinion and you can change that opinion with sound logic.

Stockpiling: I saw an article some years ago that basically said you've got one guy who has spent thousands on the perfect weapons platform, built his bunker, stockpiled his necessities and drilled until he could do everything he needed to do within seconds of getting the word that it has come to an end. On the other hand, his neighbor has gone to Walmart, bought a hundred dollar .22 and a $10 scope and simply watched. When it hit the fan, the guy with the $100 rifle waits and pops the guy that has drilled relentlessly and takes everything he left behind. Sounds like my luck. :mrgreen:

Is stockpiling bad? Absolutely not. It is a good thing to have stuff put back for a hard day. If something happens, you and yours are ready. You survive, and do it pretty well. But let's say something catastrophic has happened. It takes a long time for order to be restored. The stores have all been looted. Your generators have burned up all of the gas you had set back in reserve. What now?

Hunting/gathering: This will certainly fall into the category of ranger skills. To supplement your food stores it would be good to know how to hunt with everything from snares to cannons . . . okay, not cannons . . . maybe. What about recognizing edible wild plants? I've seen a thread or two about this already. These are skills that I would certainly want in my bag of tricks if it goes south. Also a small garden wouldn't be a bad idea.

Weapons usage: What if (God forbid) things turn hostile? I have another acquaintance that I was talking to once about gunfights and how they happen up close and personal. He said, "If I can't reach out about a hundred yards and hit a man in the eye, then I don't want anything to do with it." Mmmm okay, in the state of North Carolina during our current times, if you shoot a man at that distance anywhere on the body, including the eye, you are going to be VERY hard pressed to prove self-defense. You're going to prison for murder. But in that world, wouldn't it be best to know how to use and maintain a variety of ranged weapons from firearms to spears to bow and arrows?

What about when it gets up close and personal? An Orc has managed to get in your face. A good sword/staff/stick/knife could be a great equalizer. And let's not forget about your hands/body. Train. Train hard. Train like your life depends on it because it may.

Fire: I can't believe I almost forgot fire making. Fire is life in a survival situation. There are various ways to make a fire. There are various modern fire makers. What happens when the matches, or the fuel in your lighter runs out? I repeat: Fire is life. Flint and steel or maybe another primitive method will keep you warm and alive.

Now what about sellable skills? Okay, for me that would be bladesmithing and some leather work. These would certainly come in handy as bartering took hold as an acceptable form of trade again.

Now, I'm sure I've overlooked some things. But I think I just made up my list of skills to work on for 2017.

So, what do you think? What suggestions do you have? Where have I strayed from the mark? Quite frankly, I've been on the forum since its start and shamefully, I've probably grown as a ranger less than any of you. I plan to change that in this coming year.

Oh, and don't let the radical Yada-Yadas anywhere near the power grid. :lol:
I have been into the primitive side of survival for a long time now. I am a primitive skills instructor to our group, although I used to do it for a living. I am also an 18th century living historian, & this is how I came to realise that primitive is the best way to go.
As I see it, sooner of later in a long term wilderness living situation, modern gadgets are going to start to run out, wear out, break down. Then anyone using only modern gear will be thrown back into the stone age. Anyone using pre 19th century gear will never drop below that level of comfort.
I know all the arguments regarding modern firearms, & I am not rubbishing their use, but they do have their faults. In a fire-fight I would certainly prefer to be using a modern firearm, & if I should ever be forced to leave my forest home, I will make sure that my modern guns are taken along by members of my family, but if I could only carry one hunting tool with me, I would choose my muzzle-loading fusil. A bow & arrows I can make in the wilderness, & as it is if I get my self-bow finished I would be taking that along as well.
It is not just the equipment we carry, it is also the clothing we wear & our training in the bush that gives us the advantage. Take a simple item such as footwear, what do you think the average modern gear prepper will do when his/her boots break or wear out? We on the other hand have made our own footwear & so we not only know how to make these moccasins, but we are also wearing the pattern on our feet (they are also very light, so I carry a spare pair on my pack).
In my opinion, pre 19th century living historians, historical trekkers & people such as yourselves, stand the very best chance of survival in any SHTF situation that may arise that can be survived. To ignore the fact that we have been in a shtf situation in the past & that it could quite easily happen again would not be sensible, that is why I think it is important that we train & equip ourselves in a practicle & realistic manner. We are all woodsmen, & as such we need to be skilled in our craft for our own safety.
Regards, Keith.
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Re: Prepper vs Ranger

Post by Eric C »

Thanks for the answers! Yeah, I failed to mention anything about clothing. That is a very good topic. How are we going to stay warm while moving or hunting? In what practical ways are our particular outfits an asset to us? I know my cloak is made from two British Army blankets. They cover me pretty well when I need them to. And they are quite warm.
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Peter Remling
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Re: Prepper vs Ranger

Post by Peter Remling »

The difference between the two is philosophical. A "prepper" stockpiles food, water and supplies with the hope of a catastrophe happening so that they can improve their pecking order by being the "richest" person around. A Ranger or anyone who prepares for life's negative aspect, prepares themselves to handle a catastrophe or negative event with the hope they never have to use those skills.
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Re: Prepper vs Ranger

Post by Udwin »

Excellent topic, Eric!
Personal perspective disclosure: As well as doing a bit of survival consulting during college, I used to maintain a regular blog providing critiques of NatGeo’s ‘Doomsday Preppers’ program, and I’ve taught survival seminars to young and old alike. I have a degree in Anthropology, Environmental Studies, and History, which combined we might call ‘civilization studies’, and which sent me towards the ‘Yada-yada’ side of the spectrum. ;)

In my experience, those who stand the least chance of weathering storms both natural and/or man-made are those who ‘turn Prepper’ overnight, which is usually directed towards a goal of maintaining one’s current pre-disaster standards of living (although they will never describe it as such). This is typically accomplished through Purchasing Power—buying and stockpiling weapons/ammunition, water, bulk food, fuel for generators, modern camping supplies, &c.
It is my belief that—at least in the ‘the West’/First World/Global North—due to the high amount of nonrenewable energy invested in this standard of living, this strategy is unsustainable in the long run.
On the other hand, those who stand the BEST chance of making it through calamities are those who have consciously taken preemptive actions and made concrete changes towards sustainability in their day-to-day lifestyle. Generally, this requires going down a few rungs on the ‘ladder of material progress’ (I dislike this analogy because it implies a hierarchy, but it gets my point across). For example, if you are already living ‘off-grid’, a disruption of said grid should be of little direct concern to you.

While we here may not be living a ‘Middle-earth lifestyle’ day-to-day, as Tolkien’s world is a pre-industrial setting, any activities we practice in these pursuits can only serve to further acclimatize us to pre-industrial ‘hard’ skills and lifeways—food production, textile production, handsewing, leatherwork, smith-craft, hearth cooking, hunting, gathering, weather-reading, medicinal herbage, weapons-handling, outdoor travel and sleeping, &c. Naturally, the closer one approaches a lifestyle of full-time practicing of traditional skills, with little-to-no reliance on The Grid (a la those living in modern hunter-gatherer/tribally-organized/non-hierarchical societies (the ultimate sustainable cultures), the better one’s chances for survival become; this is when ‘soft’ skills come into play.

I’m wary of continuing much further, for fear of breaking our no-politics rules, as making conscious decisions in how one lives one’s life based on personally-held beliefs is the definition of politics.
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Re: Prepper vs Ranger

Post by Le-Loup »

Eric C wrote:Thanks for the answers! Yeah, I failed to mention anything about clothing. That is a very good topic. How are we going to stay warm while moving or hunting? In what practical ways are our particular outfits an asset to us? I know my cloak is made from two British Army blankets. They cover me pretty well when I need them to. And they are quite warm.
Dress in layers, take off when hot, put on when cold. I doubt you wear your cloak in summer, in winter it should double as bedding. You can wear two shirts, & a waistcoat. The use of the frock goes back to the middle ages & forward into the 20th century. When you are on the move you warm up anyway, it is only when you stop moving that one gets cold. Do not work too hard so that you perspire, getting damp will freeze you at night unless you strip off & dry your clothing in front of a fire. The main thing about our clothing as I see it is that it is easily replaced from nature. Making our own clothing, like the footwear, gives us an advantage. I would not bother making breeches if mine wore out, I would simply make a breechclout, in fact I have one already.
Keith.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less travelled by,
And that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.

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Re: Prepper vs Ranger

Post by Ringulf »

Peter Remling wrote:The difference between the two is philosophical. A "prepper" stockpiles food, water and supplies with the hope of a catastrophe happening so that they can improve their pecking order by being the "richest" person around. A Ranger or anyone who prepares for life's negative aspect, prepares themselves to handle a catastrophe or negative event with the hope they never have to use those skills.
Thank you Pete you said exactly what I was thinking! This very morning down here in a chilly Florida 40 degree cold snap my Nephew and Brother in Law were intent upon a morning fishing trip. I prepared for it in the usual method using layers and waterproofed equipment. trail supplies and all, had maps had extra things to help, nothing extreme just what I normally have in the jeep. Well through the morning into the afternoon I was comfortable, prepared for everything that was thrown at us and even knew most of the folks at the local fish camp were we retired for lunch. It wasn't till my 13 year old Nephew said to my sister, "Wow Uncle Scott was like a combination of Daniel Boone, Crocodile Dundee and Arigorn out there!" I realized that this is not how most modern folks think and act anymore. I had extra stuff that took care of the whole group but I wasn't really even thinking about it, it was my Ranger/SCA/Wilderness lifestyle that allowed me to make it just another day in paradise when it could have been cold, wet and miserable.
That is when I had to quietly say to myself "Yup, I am on the right forums and read the right books and all this "Fantasy" stuff makes a difference in real life too!" :mrgreen:
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Re: Prepper vs Ranger

Post by Eric C »

Peter Remling wrote:The difference between the two is philosophical. A "prepper" stockpiles food, water and supplies with the hope of a catastrophe happening so that they can improve their pecking order by being the "richest" person around. A Ranger or anyone who prepares for life's negative aspect, prepares themselves to handle a catastrophe or negative event with the hope they never have to use those skills.
I've thought about this as well. Also, as I alluded to before, what happens when the next guy decides he wants to be top dog? My aforementioned acquaintance told me once, "The lone wolf isn't going to make it. You need to be part of a group." I don't make it in groups. Sorry, I've tried. Anyway, back to the question. What happens when a new power monger comes along? OR what happens when your carefully stored away supplies start to get used up? The group (in my opinion) is going to either fall into anarchy and in-fighting, or it is going to become little more than a gang going around and taking from others.
Udwin wrote:Excellent topic, Eric!
Personal perspective disclosure: As well as doing a bit of survival consulting during college, I used to maintain a regular blog providing critiques of NatGeo’s ‘Doomsday Preppers’ program, and I’ve taught survival seminars to young and old alike. I have a degree in Anthropology, Environmental Studies, and History, which combined we might call ‘civilization studies’, and which sent me towards the ‘Yada-yada’ side of the spectrum. ;)

In my experience, those who stand the least chance of weathering storms both natural and/or man-made are those who ‘turn Prepper’ overnight, which is usually directed towards a goal of maintaining one’s current pre-disaster standards of living (although they will never describe it as such). This is typically accomplished through Purchasing Power—buying and stockpiling weapons/ammunition, water, bulk food, fuel for generators, modern camping supplies, &c.
It is my belief that—at least in the ‘the West’/First World/Global North—due to the high amount of nonrenewable energy invested in this standard of living, this strategy is unsustainable in the long run.
On the other hand, those who stand the BEST chance of making it through calamities are those who have consciously taken preemptive actions and made concrete changes towards sustainability in their day-to-day lifestyle. Generally, this requires going down a few rungs on the ‘ladder of material progress’ (I dislike this analogy because it implies a hierarchy, but it gets my point across). For example, if you are already living ‘off-grid’, a disruption of said grid should be of little direct concern to you.

While we here may not be living a ‘Middle-earth lifestyle’ day-to-day, as Tolkien’s world is a pre-industrial setting, any activities we practice in these pursuits can only serve to further acclimatize us to pre-industrial ‘hard’ skills and lifeways—food production, textile production, handsewing, leatherwork, smith-craft, hearth cooking, hunting, gathering, weather-reading, medicinal herbage, weapons-handling, outdoor travel and sleeping, &c. Naturally, the closer one approaches a lifestyle of full-time practicing of traditional skills, with little-to-no reliance on The Grid (a la those living in modern hunter-gatherer/tribally-organized/non-hierarchical societies (the ultimate sustainable cultures), the better one’s chances for survival become; this is when ‘soft’ skills come into play.

I’m wary of continuing much further, for fear of breaking our no-politics rules, as making conscious decisions in how one lives one’s life based on personally-held beliefs is the definition of politics.
Well said! One thing that aggravated the living daylights out of me in the Army was doing the same thing over and over and over again, again and again until we could do it in our sleep. Then when we hit the ground during Desert Shield/Desert Storm, suddenly all of the repetition made sense. All of those tasks weren't even second nature. They were suddenly a way of life, and we didn't have to have a hard crash course in it, because we had already prepared. This, I feel is what we (or at least my family) should be about.
Le-Loup wrote:Dress in layers, take off when hot, put on when cold. I doubt you wear your cloak in summer, in winter it should double as bedding. You can wear two shirts, & a waistcoat. The use of the frock goes back to the middle ages & forward into the 20th century. When you are on the move you warm up anyway, it is only when you stop moving that one gets cold. Do not work too hard so that you perspire, getting damp will freeze you at night unless you strip off & dry your clothing in front of a fire. The main thing about our clothing as I see it is that it is easily replaced from nature. Making our own clothing, like the footwear, gives us an advantage. I would not bother making breeches if mine wore out, I would simply make a breechclout, in fact I have one already.
Keith.
Another army story: We were a mechanized unit. We didn't walk anywhere hardly. But it was near the end of the fiscal year and we were out of money. So we were marching out to bivouac sites for our annual testing (Common Task Testing for those who know it). One day, it was cool and we marched through a drizzling rain. I put my poncho on to stay dry. Of course it held in some sweat. We got to our bivouac site for the night and I was trembling a little while I worked to set up my shelter half. My 1Sgt came by and saw me (I still look up to that man). He asked, "Cartrette, are you cold?" I said, "A little bit 1Sgt." I didn't want to sound whimpy. He asked, "Is your T-shirt wet?" I didn't think it was so I stuttered a little. He said, "If you change that T-shirt, you'll warm up." Before I could even get my BDU blouse back on, I was warming up already. Moral of the story: Keep your clothes - especially your under garments - dry.
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Re: Prepper vs Ranger

Post by Kortoso »

Excellent discussion!

In the past, I have been what people now call a prepper. I started to think it through, however, what was I assuming I would be surviving? Global thermonuclear war? Yes, I suppose that surviving that would take some special preparing. Then I lost my job and my car slid into a ditch. And I weathered a few bona-fide natural disasters since then. It was not the gadgets in my "go-bag" that got me to the other side of those, but self-reliance and adaptability. My dream with ME Rangering is to encourage these and other traits as much as possible, since no man knows what kind of challenges the future will bring.
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Re: Prepper vs Ranger

Post by Peter Remling »

Regarding what I call "prepper" , these are the folks who spend all their time and money stockpiling more stuff than they can possibly take with them if they have to move. I have prepared for small events but I don't consider myself a prepper. I don't have tons of gadgets, I do keep a kit in the car and additional items at home.

It's ok to prepare but those preparations should not become the focus of your life. During Hurricane Sandy we were without power for a week. While heating was an issue (wore sweatshirts over sweatshirts indoors) cooking was done on a Coleman propane stove. We had sufficient food and water and didn't check into hotels 30 miles away like most of our neighbors.

I put a kit in my car after being stranded in a snowstorm (in April) in the Poconos. I was totally unprepared wearing only a t shirt, denim jacket, jeans and holey sneakers. Walking nine hours in snow dressed like that makes you realize you don't relish doing it again.

I'm prepared but I don't let preparations run my life. I don't look forward to the next event but understand things do happen.
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Re: Prepper vs Ranger

Post by Eric C »

Peter Remling wrote:Regarding what I call "prepper" , these are the folks who spend all their time and money stockpiling more stuff than they can possibly take with them if they have to move. I have prepared for small events but I don't consider myself a prepper. I don't have tons of gadgets, I do keep a kit in the car and additional items at home.

It's ok to prepare but those preparations should not become the focus of your life. During Hurricane Sandy we were without power for a week. While heating was an issue (wore sweatshirts over sweatshirts indoors) cooking was done on a Coleman propane stove. We had sufficient food and water and didn't check into hotels 30 miles away like most of our neighbors.

I put a kit in my car after being stranded in a snowstorm (in April) in the Poconos. I was totally unprepared wearing only a t shirt, denim jacket, jeans and holey sneakers. Walking nine hours in snow dressed like that makes you realize you don't relish doing it again.

I'm prepared but I don't let preparations run my life. I don't look forward to the next event but understand things do happen.
Kortoso wrote:Excellent discussion!

In the past, I have been what people now call a prepper. I started to think it through, however, what was I assuming I would be surviving? Global thermonuclear war? Yes, I suppose that surviving that would take some special preparing. Then I lost my job and my car slid into a ditch. And I weathered a few bona-fide natural disasters since then. It was not the gadgets in my "go-bag" that got me to the other side of those, but self-reliance and adaptability. My dream with ME Rangering is to encourage these and other traits as much as possible, since no man knows what kind of challenges the future will bring.
Very good thoughts and lots of truth there! Some wonderful things about ME "training" are 1) this forum. Great bunch of people who are willing to help and to discuss such things from the Prof's writings to a modern day problem that we could or even have all faced. 2) It's fun! I don't look at every item I see and think "I should pick that up for the day the sun explodes." I do have to transition over from "hey, that's cool and would look good in my kit," to "yeah, it's cool, but what purpose does it serve?"
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