What makes this real?
- Greg
- Urush bithî 'nKi ya-nam bawâb
- Posts: 4496
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:50 pm
- Location: Eriador; Central Indiana
What makes this real?
We all are, to some degree or another, in pursuit of making Middle-earth real. We are a part of this forum, which chiefly exists for purposes of dressing like Middle-earth, rather than just reading books or watching films.
What about what you do personally within this community is what makes it feel real? Does going to a Faire dressed as a Ranger feel real? Camping in the woods? Taking a hike? Or is there something more?
One, two, ready...go.
What about what you do personally within this community is what makes it feel real? Does going to a Faire dressed as a Ranger feel real? Camping in the woods? Taking a hike? Or is there something more?
One, two, ready...go.
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
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- Haeropada
- Posts: 937
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:00 pm
- Location: Indianapolis, IN USA
Re: What makes this real?
Hiking in Ranger garb makes things feel more 'real,' until you come across the family walking the trail in the other direction, their golden retriever just fine with you, but they, clad in spandex lycra in a combination of florescent colors, give you a nervous hello and then walk along even faster.
The 'realness' is why I'm doing my Dragons Wood Inn project. It isn't "Westworld," but it's the closest I'll be able to afford and put in place. With the flurry of activity this late summer, I'm starting to be able to imagine a time when a bunch of us can hang out in Ranger garb in a 'Middle-earth bubble.'
The 'realness' is why I'm doing my Dragons Wood Inn project. It isn't "Westworld," but it's the closest I'll be able to afford and put in place. With the flurry of activity this late summer, I'm starting to be able to imagine a time when a bunch of us can hang out in Ranger garb in a 'Middle-earth bubble.'
Vápnum sÃnum skala maðr velli á
feti ganga framar þvà at óvist er at vita
nær verðr á vegum úti geirs um þörf guma
Hávamál
feti ganga framar þvà at óvist er at vita
nær verðr á vegum úti geirs um þörf guma
Hávamál
- Peter Remling
- Athel Dunedain
- Posts: 3735
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:20 am
Re: What makes this real?
Learning a new "primitive" skill or just walking in the woods and observing. Seeing the things that few will comprehend for what they actually are.
Re: What makes this real?
Interesting topic. So many facets to this gem but here goes.
To start off with I'm a massive Tolkien fan. I'm one of the crazies that rereads the trilogy every fall and usually ends up reading the other works as well. I just started The Fellowship last week actually.
For me as a whole it intertwine's deeply with me as a person. In a way it's who I've always been. Much of my youth was spent wandering nearby woods, wooden sword in hand and a good knife at my belt just letting my imagination do its thing. I did farm work all summer the year before I started high school and bought my first "real" sword, a Last Legend Skofnung that I modded a cross guard and wheel pommel onto. I loved that crowbar of a blade. I got into HEMA that year as well. I had always tried to teach myself something of sword work up to that point but when I saw Hank Reinhardt and John Clements on the history channel talking about and displaying realistic western sword use I knew I'd found my calling. After that I began devouring anything I could find on the subject and training in earnest.
Parallel to that I grew up doing primitive camping and the like. We had a nearby school that was run by a local archeologist to promote and teach primitive life ways that we would always instruct at through the summers. Also dad and I always did the 18th c living history thing since time out of mind. For me though my heart was always drawn to something like this. I wanted to carry a blade and bow not a longrifle as I trekked. In fact my earliest kits were merely my longhunter pack and clothes coupled with a cloak, longsword and bow.
Ultimately I think at the same time for me it's more than just being a real life swordsman, woodsman, tracker etc. It's more than just crafting kit and clothing. More than regular camps and treks. For me the idea of a ranger aligns with my moral and philosophical compass precisely. That concept of being a self reliant protector that serves a higher selfless purpose goes to my core. Its something I strive to emulate both in kit out in the wilds and in day to day life. I think it's also a healthy means of escaping the rush and complexity of modern living every now and again.
To start off with I'm a massive Tolkien fan. I'm one of the crazies that rereads the trilogy every fall and usually ends up reading the other works as well. I just started The Fellowship last week actually.
For me as a whole it intertwine's deeply with me as a person. In a way it's who I've always been. Much of my youth was spent wandering nearby woods, wooden sword in hand and a good knife at my belt just letting my imagination do its thing. I did farm work all summer the year before I started high school and bought my first "real" sword, a Last Legend Skofnung that I modded a cross guard and wheel pommel onto. I loved that crowbar of a blade. I got into HEMA that year as well. I had always tried to teach myself something of sword work up to that point but when I saw Hank Reinhardt and John Clements on the history channel talking about and displaying realistic western sword use I knew I'd found my calling. After that I began devouring anything I could find on the subject and training in earnest.
Parallel to that I grew up doing primitive camping and the like. We had a nearby school that was run by a local archeologist to promote and teach primitive life ways that we would always instruct at through the summers. Also dad and I always did the 18th c living history thing since time out of mind. For me though my heart was always drawn to something like this. I wanted to carry a blade and bow not a longrifle as I trekked. In fact my earliest kits were merely my longhunter pack and clothes coupled with a cloak, longsword and bow.
Ultimately I think at the same time for me it's more than just being a real life swordsman, woodsman, tracker etc. It's more than just crafting kit and clothing. More than regular camps and treks. For me the idea of a ranger aligns with my moral and philosophical compass precisely. That concept of being a self reliant protector that serves a higher selfless purpose goes to my core. Its something I strive to emulate both in kit out in the wilds and in day to day life. I think it's also a healthy means of escaping the rush and complexity of modern living every now and again.
"Lonely men are we, Rangers of the wild, hunters – but hunters ever of the servants of the Enemy."
“My cuts, short or long, don’t go wrong.â€
“My cuts, short or long, don’t go wrong.â€
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- Haeropada
- Posts: 937
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:00 pm
- Location: Indianapolis, IN USA
Re: What makes this real?
Would you ever consider teaching an 'Intro to Western Sword Fighting' or some such class? Once I get my Inn up and running (and you're not too far from Indianapolis), I want to do weekend events that would include a variety of classes. I, for one, would enjoy such a class.Ursus wrote: For me as a whole it intertwine's deeply with me as a person. In a way it's who I've always been. Much of my youth was spent wandering nearby woods, wooden sword in hand and a good knife at my belt just letting my imagination do its thing. I did farm work all summer the year before I started high school and bought my first "real" sword, a Last Legend Skofnung that I modded a cross guard and wheel pommel onto. I loved that crowbar of a blade. I got into HEMA that year as well. I had always tried to teach myself something of sword work up to that point but when I saw Hank Reinhardt and John Clements on the history channel talking about and displaying realistic western sword use I knew I'd found my calling. After that I began devouring anything I could find on the subject and training in earnest.
Vápnum sÃnum skala maðr velli á
feti ganga framar þvà at óvist er at vita
nær verðr á vegum úti geirs um þörf guma
Hávamál
feti ganga framar þvà at óvist er at vita
nær verðr á vegum úti geirs um þörf guma
Hávamál
Re: What makes this real?
Without committing the now, yes. I was intending to attempt something similar on the forum. Between work and home life unfortunately I just don't have the time. But a weekend event, scheduled far enough in advance, I think would be something I could manage. That aside I would love to come lend a hand and work on the inn some weekend as well.
"Lonely men are we, Rangers of the wild, hunters – but hunters ever of the servants of the Enemy."
“My cuts, short or long, don’t go wrong.â€
“My cuts, short or long, don’t go wrong.â€
Re: What makes this real?
For me, it's not enough to just put on some non-modern clothing and hoist a non-modern pack and go for a walk. I find that 'making it real' requires not only a physical preparation (garb and gear) but also mental preparation. Perhaps I am a perfectionist, but I find it helps me immensely to try and situate myself in an appropriate Middle-earth landscape...paddling on the Ohio (even properly clothed) doesn't become a Middle-earth experience until I tell myself that I am paddling down the Anduin.
Of course, to view things as through a Middle-earth lens helps greatly too; as does tweaking one's internal monologue...try thinking like your persona would think!
Likewise, what I do isn't 'dress-up', it's 'living history', emphasis on living. The more I can insert simple, everyday, period activities into my modern life (and not have to think about them), the closer I can come to 'real'...braintanning for livelihood, making trade goods to take to markets, harvesting and processing nuts (3 kinds this season), preparing a fire and starting it with flint&steel, repairing a tear with my all-period-appropriate sewing kit, &c.
To borrow a phrase from Mark Baker, "I don't want to 'rough it', I want to 'smooth it'!"
And of course, the natural materials we use by necessity are so much more 'real' than modern materials. The nuance of a split ash spear shaft, drawknifed and spokeshaved, oiled with pine tar, and well-patina'd through being carried on countless hikes....a level of sublime that modern consumers will never know.
Of course, to view things as through a Middle-earth lens helps greatly too; as does tweaking one's internal monologue...try thinking like your persona would think!
Likewise, what I do isn't 'dress-up', it's 'living history', emphasis on living. The more I can insert simple, everyday, period activities into my modern life (and not have to think about them), the closer I can come to 'real'...braintanning for livelihood, making trade goods to take to markets, harvesting and processing nuts (3 kinds this season), preparing a fire and starting it with flint&steel, repairing a tear with my all-period-appropriate sewing kit, &c.
To borrow a phrase from Mark Baker, "I don't want to 'rough it', I want to 'smooth it'!"
And of course, the natural materials we use by necessity are so much more 'real' than modern materials. The nuance of a split ash spear shaft, drawknifed and spokeshaved, oiled with pine tar, and well-patina'd through being carried on countless hikes....a level of sublime that modern consumers will never know.
Personae: Aistan son of Ansteig, common Beorning of Wilderland; Tungo Brandybuck, Eastfarthing Bounder, 3018 TA; a native Man of the Greyflood, c.850 SA
- Greg
- Urush bithî 'nKi ya-nam bawâb
- Posts: 4496
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:50 pm
- Location: Eriador; Central Indiana
Re: What makes this real?
Fascinating. Here we have two completely different answers; Ursus's and Udwin's, to which I can readily connect.
Ursus's is very much based on who he is, and what he personally connects with as character traits. Udwin's is very much based on practical immersion; what can I do to become.
I don't think it would be safe for me to say that I fall somewhere in-between...that would be saying that I pull some from one and some from another, which I would deem inaccurate. Rather, I think I have both my feel squarely in both camps.
Growing up, everything that I wanted to be and aspired to, both in hobby as well as career, pointed towards the archetype I eventually found in Tolkien: the Ranger. A wanderer, hunter, protector with a rockin' cloak.
Now as an adult, all of the practical becoming I find absolutely fascinating, and feel that every effort made to create the character through his garb and accouterments brings a sense of personal to everything I do when in kit and, indeed, approaches that level of sublime Udwin referred to. My blades are reaching that standard surprisingly quickly, and my eventual yew bow completion I hope will yield similar results.
...but when does it feel real to me?
I find Middle-earth reality on rare occasions at night. I have been on dozens of hikes and outings with fellow forumites, and they are immersive, but there are always moments of lingering modern that are difficult to keep away. Forgivable, welcome moments, like discussing what has transpired in our lives since last we met, and other et ceteras, but moments nonetheless. Because of this, I have found Middle-earth is most real, for me, in kit at night alone.
A hike through the woods at night is a scary experience. I have on one occasion been completely disoriented for over an hour at night and come across a familiar road over a mile from where I thought I was. Night changes everything. The sounds, the scents...it really is a different world. Because of this sudden change into a world what I'm not wholly familiar with (for lack of consistency), it gains this otherworldly air.
Insert into this the feeling you get when you wear a sword. Carry a bow. Wear a cloak. We all know it...it changes us a little bit. I would highly encourage everyone try it, and I really mean alone. I've found under the moonlight, donning that inner-outer change, on more than one occasion, that I didn't recognize my reflection at lakeside or on a riverbank. Not a mysterious medieval-ninja bent on slaying sentries, yadda-yadda...but a wanderer, rather roguish in appearance, and not likely welcome at an inn.
Let me tell you...I would be delighted to be turned away at an inn.
Ursus's is very much based on who he is, and what he personally connects with as character traits. Udwin's is very much based on practical immersion; what can I do to become.
I don't think it would be safe for me to say that I fall somewhere in-between...that would be saying that I pull some from one and some from another, which I would deem inaccurate. Rather, I think I have both my feel squarely in both camps.
Growing up, everything that I wanted to be and aspired to, both in hobby as well as career, pointed towards the archetype I eventually found in Tolkien: the Ranger. A wanderer, hunter, protector with a rockin' cloak.
Now as an adult, all of the practical becoming I find absolutely fascinating, and feel that every effort made to create the character through his garb and accouterments brings a sense of personal to everything I do when in kit and, indeed, approaches that level of sublime Udwin referred to. My blades are reaching that standard surprisingly quickly, and my eventual yew bow completion I hope will yield similar results.
...but when does it feel real to me?
I find Middle-earth reality on rare occasions at night. I have been on dozens of hikes and outings with fellow forumites, and they are immersive, but there are always moments of lingering modern that are difficult to keep away. Forgivable, welcome moments, like discussing what has transpired in our lives since last we met, and other et ceteras, but moments nonetheless. Because of this, I have found Middle-earth is most real, for me, in kit at night alone.
A hike through the woods at night is a scary experience. I have on one occasion been completely disoriented for over an hour at night and come across a familiar road over a mile from where I thought I was. Night changes everything. The sounds, the scents...it really is a different world. Because of this sudden change into a world what I'm not wholly familiar with (for lack of consistency), it gains this otherworldly air.
Insert into this the feeling you get when you wear a sword. Carry a bow. Wear a cloak. We all know it...it changes us a little bit. I would highly encourage everyone try it, and I really mean alone. I've found under the moonlight, donning that inner-outer change, on more than one occasion, that I didn't recognize my reflection at lakeside or on a riverbank. Not a mysterious medieval-ninja bent on slaying sentries, yadda-yadda...but a wanderer, rather roguish in appearance, and not likely welcome at an inn.
Let me tell you...I would be delighted to be turned away at an inn.
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
Re: What makes this real?
I startled the whole family by pointing at the screen here and booming "YES!! HAHAHAHA!" Always a joy when you find out some else gets itGreg wrote:Let me tell you...I would be delighted to be turned away at an inn.
"Lonely men are we, Rangers of the wild, hunters – but hunters ever of the servants of the Enemy."
“My cuts, short or long, don’t go wrong.â€
“My cuts, short or long, don’t go wrong.â€
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- Haeropada
- Posts: 937
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:00 pm
- Location: Indianapolis, IN USA
Re: What makes this real?
When I was younger, fitter, and unemcumbered, I did a lot of solo hiking and back-country camping, including very scary night camping spaces like Yellowstone (amazing how much a chipmunk sounds like a grizzly bear when dusk rolls around). I remember hiking in the Rockies outside of Denver and thinking, "What if I go back down the trail and it's a thousand years ago? or ten thousand years from now?" When you're alone with only your head and nature, it's easier to fill in the empty space with imagination.Greg wrote: I find Middle-earth reality on rare occasions at night. I have been on dozens of hikes and outings with fellow forumites, and they are immersive, but there are always moments of lingering modern that are difficult to keep away. Forgivable, welcome moments, like discussing what has transpired in our lives since last we met, and other et ceteras, but moments nonetheless. Because of this, I have found Middle-earth is most real, for me, in kit at night alone.
A hike through the woods at night is a scary experience. I have on one occasion been completely disoriented for over an hour at night and come across a familiar road over a mile from where I thought I was. Night changes everything. The sounds, the scents...it really is a different world. Because of this sudden change into a world what I'm not wholly familiar with (for lack of consistency), it gains this otherworldly air.
I wonder what it would be like to take an 'in persona' pledge on a group outing. When I studied Russian in the then-Soviet Union, one of the things we had to do upon entry to the program was to sign a pledge that we would only speak English behind closed doors, and only when no native Russian speakers were present. And for the most part, all the group participants really kept to the pledge.
Vápnum sÃnum skala maðr velli á
feti ganga framar þvà at óvist er at vita
nær verðr á vegum úti geirs um þörf guma
Hávamál
feti ganga framar þvà at óvist er at vita
nær verðr á vegum úti geirs um þörf guma
Hávamál
- Greg
- Urush bithî 'nKi ya-nam bawâb
- Posts: 4496
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:50 pm
- Location: Eriador; Central Indiana
Re: What makes this real?
This sort of thing would be very interesting. Udwin and I have chatted sporadically about what our personas require "beyond gear", and he's talked about his dialect/accent a little bit. It might be hard to maintain character on a private small group outing exclusively with people we know, but we've also talked about finding loose living-history events that the MEReenactment Society could make an event out of, and such a thing would be a good context for an in-character commitment. Performance art for the sake of realism more than realism for the sake of performance art.Straelbora wrote:I wonder what it would be like to take an 'in persona' pledge on a group outing. When I studied Russian in the then-Soviet Union, one of the things we had to do upon entry to the program was to sign a pledge that we would only speak English behind closed doors, and only when no native Russian speakers were present. And for the most part, all the group participants really kept to the pledge.
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
Re: What makes this real?
Yeah, I know of hardcore 18th century guys who have done full-immersion, Zero modern speech, events. They'll take all their pictures at the trailhead or after trek, and if someone starts straying into modern topics, they have a watch-word, like "Take care," that they use to subtly remind each other to 'keep period'. Honestly, in thinking about this for M-e purposes, having such a full-immersion event would be exponentially harder for us, given how we have comparatively little in the way of day-to-day details that we could speak of. Unless one is Really good at 'translating' modern life into period terms, it would be tricky. But I'd be willing to try! Would definitely be up for doing so at a public event.Greg wrote:This sort of thing would be very interesting. Udwin and I have chatted sporadically about what our personas require "beyond gear", and he's talked about his dialect/accent a little bit. It might be hard to maintain character on a private small group outing exclusively with people we know, but we've also talked about finding loose living-history events that the MEReenactment Society could make an event out of, and such a thing would be a good context for an in-character commitment. Performance art for the sake of realism more than realism for the sake of performance art.Straelbora wrote:I wonder what it would be like to take an 'in persona' pledge on a group outing.
Personae: Aistan son of Ansteig, common Beorning of Wilderland; Tungo Brandybuck, Eastfarthing Bounder, 3018 TA; a native Man of the Greyflood, c.850 SA
- Elleth
- êphal ki-*raznahê
- Posts: 2933
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
- Location: in the Angle; New England
Re: What makes this real?
Hrmm... it's hard to really get total immersion, at least during the day. there's always a contrail overhead, a neighbor's chainsaw or motortoy (I hate those things) going a mile or two off... occasionally the stars line up, but it's harder. Evening though - that's better.
Having had the good fortune to occasionally walk in Great Big Empties in Alaska, it still feels different down here. Knowing your days and days from the nearest habitation - even if you knew where it was- is an entirely different mental space from playing in our woods down here.
Faire is... it's own thing. Magic when I was a child, now a good place to meet the rare like-minded friend, but not immersive.
Mostly though, I confess I don't go for full immersion. I'm not looking to feel as if I'm in the Trollshaws or the Angle.. I'm looking for the no-mind of simple moment-by-moment unencumbered being. Wearing natural clothes stitched by own hand, surrounded by cool deep forest: in the right moment I can find that.
And it's more than enough.
Having had the good fortune to occasionally walk in Great Big Empties in Alaska, it still feels different down here. Knowing your days and days from the nearest habitation - even if you knew where it was- is an entirely different mental space from playing in our woods down here.
Faire is... it's own thing. Magic when I was a child, now a good place to meet the rare like-minded friend, but not immersive.
Mostly though, I confess I don't go for full immersion. I'm not looking to feel as if I'm in the Trollshaws or the Angle.. I'm looking for the no-mind of simple moment-by-moment unencumbered being. Wearing natural clothes stitched by own hand, surrounded by cool deep forest: in the right moment I can find that.
And it's more than enough.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
- Greg
- Urush bithî 'nKi ya-nam bawâb
- Posts: 4496
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:50 pm
- Location: Eriador; Central Indiana
Re: What makes this real?
Sounds good. Really good.Elleth wrote:Wearing natural clothes stitched by own hand, surrounded by cool deep forest: in the right moment I can find that.
And it's more than enough.
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
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- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
- Posts: 257
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- Location: The Western Edge of Mirkwood...
Re: What makes this real?
It’s definitely not going to a Faire that makes it real for me...but that’s just me. Its the same reason I don’t really do 18th Century re-enactment unless it’s an immersive, juried event or a hunt with the others that share that same passion for “as close as possibleâ€.
It’s hunting in natural leather, linen and wool that I’ve sewn using Anglo-Saxon patterns with themcrossbow that I made, carrying the bolts I’ve made in the quiver I’ve made.
Starting a fire with flint and steel to cook lunch or make coffee.
Taking a deer, squirrel or rabbit with the weapone that I’ve made and cooking it or the liver and heart over that same flint made fire.
It’s those sort of things...
It’s hunting in natural leather, linen and wool that I’ve sewn using Anglo-Saxon patterns with themcrossbow that I made, carrying the bolts I’ve made in the quiver I’ve made.
Starting a fire with flint and steel to cook lunch or make coffee.
Taking a deer, squirrel or rabbit with the weapone that I’ve made and cooking it or the liver and heart over that same flint made fire.
It’s those sort of things...
Here I stand...unbowed, unbent, unbroken.