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Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:43 pm
by caedmon
Are there any references to waistcoats or jerkins in Bree?

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:08 pm
by Taurinor
caedmon wrote:Are there any references to waistcoats or jerkins in Bree?
Not that I've found. :(

My clothing references largely consist of the quote from Letter 211 and bits of clothing belonging to groups known to travel through/trade with Bree. A waistcoat could fall into the latter group - Bilbo wore a "embroidered silk waistcoat" with "golden buttons" and gifted "a woollen waistcoat" to Old Gaffer Gamgee (FotR, Book I, Chapter 1: "A Long-expected Party"). Since there is travel and trade between Bree and the Shire, it's possible that some fashion-based cultural exchange could be happening, and waistcoats could be worn in Bree, but I haven't found any direct references.

Greg covered the two references to jerkins here, and neither of them are in Bree. He made a good case for the possibility of rangers wearing them, though!

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:00 am
by Taurinor
Sorry about the double post, but I did find something - Butterbur is wearing a garment with a pocket, from which he produces Gandalf's letter to Frodo (FotR, Book I, Chapter 10: "Strider"). This could be a pocket in his breeches - Letter 211 specifies "that males, especially in northern parts such as the Shire, would wear breeches" and Bilbo and Frodo both carry the ring in a breeches pocket, specifically (FotR, Book 1, Chapter 5: "A Conspiracy Unmasked" and Chapter 2: "The Shadow of the Past"). It's also possible that he is wearing a waistcoat or the like with pockets, though. Or, although it seems odd to me, he could have a pocket in a tunic, like Sam does - "...hidden away in a pocket of his tunic next his breast the phial of Galadriel and the little box that she gave him for his own" (RotK, Book VI, Chapter 3: "Mount Doom").

The first option suggests that I should be wearing later period breeches than the ones that I wear, though... :oops:

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:29 am
by caedmon
The reason I ask is that I've recently changed focus, and have been working on a Bree kit myself. Trying to work out what it should look like.

I have a 14th c. Hrolfness 63 cote that can pass as late 17th c., a new tunic that is attempting to be a Hjrolfness #33 adapted to the American Fur trade Era, and am working on late 16th c. breeches adapted from the Thorsbjerg Trouser pattern.

Trying to decide if I need a waistcoat as well. Thinking of something like the guy on the left in this pattern.

Image

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:40 am
by Greg
I feel like there's a lot of Bree in the Chap on the left...perhaps with soft shoes instead of buckled late-period shoes, and a hood for outdoors?

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:13 am
by Taurinor
I agree with Greg - the fellow on the left is not too far off from how I picture Butterbur! I've also worn an 18th century short jacket in other contexts, and quite like them.

With my soft kit, I was influenced (at least in general form) by the Quintfall Hill Clothing -
quintfall hill clothing.jpg
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I didn't want to go too far into the 18th or 19th century, because that seems very Shire-ish to me, but I also didn't want to use earlier medieval styles, which seemed more appropriate for rangers and Rohirrim and the like. The cut of my 14th century cote (thank goodness for the Herjolfsnes finds!) has similar lines to the Quintfall jacket, so I made 17th century style breeches to try to satisfy the statement in Letter 211 and added a hood to "medieval-ify" the look a bit.

What I've been trying to do with my impression is to try to acknowledge that the Shire to the West and the rangers to the East are both going be influences on Bree (even if there is no accounting for either!), but also to try to avoid just averaging the two together. Bree is its own distinct culture, and Breelanders want to keep it that way!

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:04 am
by Elleth
Interesting - I like it!

How do you think that jacket would look with points or toggles? I'm thinking it might pull the look back out of high-medieval Europe into a more "folksy medieval" feel if that would help.

I've been watching the Tudor Monastary Farm series lately (LOVING it!) and find the pointed doublets and wrap-around jackets the menfolk wear interesting - and rather Bree-like.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ERDYjsHBg

I don't think going all Renaissance/Early Modern fitted doublet or anything would look right either, but there's good material in the more rusticated styles shown here to mine I think.
(As an aside, watching these guys work on sodden ground in soft shoes so much, I'm gaining a new appreciation for those short britches the menfolk wear!)


Another point of interest: I can't recall if it was this series or the earlier "Tales from the Green Valley" series the same team did, but one of the women while washing clothes in the river makes an observation I'd not thought of: hard buttons get cracked or broken in the vigorous washing of the period... hence things like points being so common. I think she's probably referring more to linens than woolens, but it's an interesting thought nonetheless.

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:21 pm
by Taurinor
Finally got my soft kit picture up, so I think I'm ... done? Ish? For now, at least? That doesn't seem right...

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:41 pm
by Iodo
Nice work :P

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:28 pm
by Taylor Steiner
Just awesome :)

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:41 am
by Greg
Taurinor wrote:Finally got my soft kit picture up, so I think I'm ... done? Ish? For now, at least? That doesn't seem right...
I keep trying to reach the 'D' word, but it constantly eludes me.

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:21 pm
by Taurinor
Greg wrote:
Taurinor wrote:Finally got my soft kit picture up, so I think I'm ... done? Ish? For now, at least? That doesn't seem right...
I keep trying to reach the 'D' word, but it constantly eludes me.
Yeah, I'm not feeling confident about it, hence the "ish". Maybe "at a solid place" is a better way of putting it. Certainly feels more comfortable.

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:23 am
by Ruinar Hrafnakveðja
Great kit write up! You have definitely inspired me to research more and work more efficiently! I'll have to write one of these once a few more pieces of my kit fall into place. Well done Ranger!

Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:52 pm
by caedmon
Hey Guys,

Long time, I've settled on the look of the Breelander kit, and am midway through the sewing the bottom layers. Figured I'd share my plan. Taurinor's sharing of the Quintfall Hill clothing sent me in a new(ish) direction and here's what I'm working toward. Suggestions & criticism are welcome.
bree_base.jpg
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bree_waistcoat.jpg
bree_waistcoat.jpg (62.52 KiB) Viewed 16877 times
bree_cote.jpg
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bree_watchcloak.jpg
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bree_hood.jpg
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Re: Working on a Bree-lander kit

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:30 am
by Greg
SO MUCH GOOD going on here! I don't know the period extensively, so I'm going to pass on commenting on minutia, but I will say that it looks very cohesive, culturally relevant, and pretty much exactly what I'd expect to run into in a place with mixed races like Bree.