Middle Earth Ranger Forum

Very nice! Looks like a great time out!

I'm always fascinated to see forests from around the globe and compare to what I know...some things are SO different, and yet there are similarities in how a forest is 'grown' that can be found pretty much everywhere. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Lovely country!

Those are lovely pictures! I especially like the one with the reflection in the water - it's always nice to see a good kit, but a well composed photo is an added bonus!

Do you mind if I ask what sort of tarps you are using for your shelters? Always curious about shelters

Greg wrote:I'm always fascinated to see forests from around the globe and compare to what I know...some things are SO different, and yet there are similarities in how a forest is 'grown' that can be found pretty much everywhere. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Lovely country!

I'm exactly the same! It's one of my favourite parts of world travel. That's why I made the comment of a 'glimpse of Australian forest'

Taurinor wrote:Those are lovely pictures! I especially like the one with the reflection in the water - it's always nice to see a good kit, but a well composed photo is an added bonus!

Do you mind if I ask what sort of tarps you are using for your shelters? Always curious about shelters

Thanks Taurinor but it's pure luck with the photos, we tend to forget to take them and then take a quick burst and forget again. We also tend to feel a bit silly if we pose for one so the reflection in this instance was just good fortune, though it was the first thing I noticed looking back through them too.

Our shelters in this photo are a simple 2x3m (6.5x10ft) sheet made of a 650gsm linen with reinforced leather attachment points.
Although a bit on the heavy side are really versatile bits of kit. Normally we would sleep two or even three to a shelter but with heavy rain forecast we elected to take one each.

This photo may help show them a bit better.

Eofor wrote:Thanks Taurinor but it's pure luck with the photos, we tend to forget to take them and then take a quick burst and forget again. We also tend to feel a bit silly if we pose for one so the reflection in this instance was just good fortune, though it was the first thing I noticed looking back through them too.

I tend to prefer the "good fortune" shots! My understanding is that models and photographers need a ton of training and practice to make deliberate shots look natural, so candids might be safest for the rest of us

Eofor wrote:Our shelters in this photo are a simple 2x3m (6.5x10ft) sheet made of a 650gsm linen with reinforced leather attachment points.
Although a bit on the heavy side are really versatile bits of kit. Normally we would sleep two or even three to a shelter but with heavy rain forecast we elected to take one each.

Thanks, this is just the sort of information I was looking for! I want to play with a linen (either flax or hemp) tarp for my medieval living history stuff, but linen canvas is expensive, so I'm worried about purchasing that kind of yardage only to find out it will leak like a sieve. I know it won't be waterproof like modern materials (or even oilskin), but I've been poking around the internet trying to see where on the scale between "sieve" and "plastic sheet" a linen tarp would fall.

Amazing photo's

Taurinor wrote:

Eofor wrote:Thanks Taurinor but it's pure luck with the photos, we tend to forget to take them and then take a quick burst and forget again. We also tend to feel a bit silly if we pose for one so the reflection in this instance was just good fortune, though it was the first thing I noticed looking back through them too.

I tend to prefer the "good fortune" shots! My understanding is that models and photographers need a ton of training and practice to make deliberate shots look natural, so candids might be safest for the rest of us

Eofor wrote:Our shelters in this photo are a simple 2x3m (6.5x10ft) sheet made of a 650gsm linen with reinforced leather attachment points.
Although a bit on the heavy side are really versatile bits of kit. Normally we would sleep two or even three to a shelter but with heavy rain forecast we elected to take one each.

Thanks, this is just the sort of information I was looking for! I want to play with a linen (either flax or hemp) tarp for my medieval living history stuff, but linen canvas is expensive, so I'm worried about purchasing that kind of yardage only to find out it will leak like a sieve. I know it won't be waterproof like modern materials (or even oilskin), but I've been poking around the internet trying to see where on the scale between "sieve" and "plastic sheet" a linen tarp would fall.

https://www.wmboothdraper.com/Hemps/hemps_index.htm
Russia sheeting is a traditional material used in tentage.

wulfgar wrote:https://www.wmboothdraper.com/Hemps/hemps_index.htm
Russia sheeting is a traditional material used in tentage.

Yes, I was looking at just that material! Part of the reason I’m looking for some idea of what to expect is because of the (undoubtedly fair, but still a consideration) price per yard.

Taurinor wrote:

wulfgar wrote:https://www.wmboothdraper.com/Hemps/hemps_index.htm
Russia sheeting is a traditional material used in tentage.

Yes, I was looking at just that material! Part of the reason I’m looking for some idea of what to expect is because of the (undoubtedly fair, but still a consideration) price per yard.

I'd always heard of russia sheeting but hadn't seen it before. very interesting, and useful to see its weight listed. Thinking back to the MERS article on trekking with boat or animal support, I could use this info to estimate how much such a shelter would add to your trail weight.
As I recall, fabric weights are by the square yard, while leather weights are by the square foot. (Please correct if I'm wrong).
Let's use Eofor's 6.5x10' shelter as an example. This is a 65square foot area. Divide by 9 (number of square feet in a square yard) gives 7.2 square yards in Eofor's shelter. Multiply by the weight of fabric (14.5) gives 104.7 ounces, divide by 16 ounces per pound gives us 6.5 pounds for that size shelter.
Using the same formula, a shelter of the same size made out of Booth's russia drab would be 7.2 pounds, and russia canvas 8.55 pounds!

Udwin wrote:I'd always heard of russia sheeting but hadn't seen it before. very interesting, and useful to see its weight listed. Thinking back to the MERS article on trekking with boat or animal support, I could use this info to estimate how much such a shelter would add to your trail weight.
As I recall, fabric weights are by the square yard, while leather weights are by the square foot. (Please correct if I'm wrong).
Let's use Eofor's 6.5x10' shelter as an example. This is a 65square foot area. Divide by 9 (number of square feet in a square yard) gives 7.2 square yards in Eofor's shelter. Multiply by the weight of fabric (14.5) gives 104.7 ounces, divide by 16 ounces per pound gives us 6.5 pounds for that size shelter.
Using the same formula, a shelter of the same size made out of Booth's russia drab would be 7.2 pounds, and russia canvas 8.55 pounds!

That looks about right, and if I converted grams per square meter to ounces per yard correctly, 650 gsm is about the equivalent of 19 oz.

Canvas shelters are heavy, no doubt about that! A pack animal or boat would definitely be the smarter way to go, but since the folks I ramble with and I go on foot but typically carry shelters with us, I've become a fan of sharing equipment, including tarps. Doesn't make them any lighter, but they can at least be passed around!

Iodo wrote:Amazing photo's

Thanks Iodo!

Udwin wrote: Let's use Eofor's 6.5x10' shelter as an example. This is a 65square foot area. Divide by 9 (number of square feet in a square yard) gives 7.2 square yards in Eofor's shelter. Multiply by the weight of fabric (14.5) gives 104.7 ounces, divide by 16 ounces per pound gives us 6.5 pounds for that size shelter.
Using the same formula, a shelter of the same size made out of Booth's russia drab would be 7.2 pounds, and russia canvas 8.55 pounds!

Pretty solid calculations there Udwin, I popped it on the scale and the weight of the shelter is 3.7kg or 132 ounces/8.25 pounds.

So yes it's quite heavy to be lugging around but a burden shared is a burned halved as my old gaffer used to say and if it's a shelter for all then each can take a turn.
Also with the density of the weave it's also naturally quite waterproof. We haven't faced a torrential fall yet but light/moderate rain beads and runs off these better than any cotton canvas I've seen.

For what it's worth, I got some of that hemp sheeting a month or two back to experiment with for a tick: once I got it, I laid it aside as at least in the hand it felt rather light for that duty.
... although I suppose it's possible they sent the wrong stuff. Hrmm.
Mine's the weight of - well - a somewhat heavy bedsheet. :/

Have you guys used the russia sheeting? If so, what's yours look like/how does it hold up?

I have not tried the sheeting. I have a 8'x8' tarp that I made out of 8oz. cotton drill which is actually what Civil War era shelter halves were made of and it is not very heavy. I haven't been in a heavy downpour in it but it did a decent job of holding back the rain.

Elleth wrote:Have you guys used the russia sheeting? If so, what's yours look like/how does it hold up?

This is from the booth draper website Wulfgar linked above - "Russia-sheeting & Russia-canvas were both plain weave hemp linens. Fabric made of finer weight threads was called sheeting & heavier weights canvas."

Ours would definitely fall under canvas, and it's excellent. I think maybe this is another modernism where I want to be completely dry but in reality 60% dry would have been considered a luxury.
I work outside in all weathers though so forgive me if I'm precious about doing it in my spare time

An afternoon on the trail at the weekend:



and I finally got my dad in ranger kit

Very nice pictures and cool that your dad went with you !