The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

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Darnokthemage
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby Darnokthemage » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:59 pm

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso ... 3154650752

Elven Parenting?

I find it really interesting, using stories to teach Kids. It seems quite Elven, instead of using anger or hard words, they use storytelling and stories.
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Darnokthemage
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby Darnokthemage » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:47 pm

Image

This might be what Legolas was wearing when he came to Rivendell.

A short tunic, similar style to the one Beleg wears in the tolkien drawing. It is also inspired by Baynes leaf tunics, maybe in a similar textile to the Mallorn bark cloth of Lorien?
One interesting though i have had about these leaf-coats is that they may be made from Spider silk? It is not at all away from the realm of possible that the Elves harvest it and weavs it into fabrics. The leaf-textile could be made by stiching embroidered (To give them leaf decour) to a thin wool cloth tunic. This would both serve as a insulation, but also maybe be an extra cover against water and wind, with the silk (Maybe lightly oiled?) serving as a water-resistant layer.
Spider silk can be used for textiles, so it would be qure likely that it could be done on a much bigger scale with bigger spiders.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired. ... r-silk/amp

A silk or linen shirt, decorated with various embroideries.

A pair of Soft leather breeches, patterned and maybe painted?

Leg wraps on top of a high pair of stockings, likely in silk or wool. The wraps also have patterned bands wired around them, as shown in Baynes art of the elves.

A pair of low green leather shoes.

And a cloak, forest green.
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Iodo
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby Iodo » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:38 pm

Spiders seem to be most often depicted as creatures of evil by Tolkien so my first thought about the possibility of harvesting spider silk to make fabric was maybe something goblins would do? But considering what I've just read:

Spider silk is very elastic, and it has a tensile strength that is incredibly strong compared to steel or Kevlar

It could be beneficial in a fight, we now have kevlar vests in middle earth :mrgreen: but in all seriousness, it's an interesting idea
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
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Darnokthemage
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby Darnokthemage » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:27 pm

I would certainly think the Spiders would be killed before the silk is harvested. I can imagine a caravan of elves carrying big baskets of silk on their head, coming home from a raid in the forest.

It would be a waste to just burn it all, like the orcs. In the new shadow we get a discussion on the difference of men cutting down trees and orcs doing it, and the justifying cause for Men cutting down trees is their usage of it.

I can think the same of the silk, would it not be a waste to burn the silk of the spiders? Why noy create bauty out of evil, and use the cloth to create good things. I can not see Orcs weave spider silk, at most i can see them weave baskets and beds of grass.
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby Iodo » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:57 am

It's an interesting idea certainly, I can't help wondering if it would behave like kevlar and actually be stab proof, silk from giant spiders is likely to be even stronger to
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby Peter Remling » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:52 pm

There are reported accounts of silk being worn to assist in the removal of arrows. It appears that while the silk is cut resistant it doesn't stop the penetration of arrows so the surgeon would simply gather the silk around the arrow and pull the arrow out without fear of the arrow head breaking off. It made for a cleaner and less severe wound so a better survival rate.

I don't have sources at the moment but I'll take a look.
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby Darnokthemage » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:17 pm

The Mongols used silk tunics for that purpose, i think.
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby Darnokthemage » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:53 pm

An Artist that i think have made some of the best elves out there is Victor Ambrus, his blend of Norman Knights and bronze age warriors are quite breathtaking. His depiction of "Working class" Elves is also very interesting, as it is rarely drawn by other artists. I think his art could be combined nicely with Pauline Baynes and Tolkien's own art into a nice mix.

Image
Image
Image
Throw a pair of elven breeches on him and he's quite perfect.
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby Darnokthemage » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:01 pm

The poem about Princess Mee states some quite fantastical but still interesting things about her dress;

"She had pearls in hair
All threaded fair;
Of gossamer shot with gold
Was her kerchief made,
And a silver braid
Of stars about her throat.
Of moth-web light
All moonlit-white..."


A gossamer and gold Kercheif!
Silver braid of moth web?

"... She wore a woven coat,
And round her kirtle
Was bound a girdle
Sewn with diamond dew..."


A woven coat.
A Kirtle!
A girdle sewn with diamond dew.

"She walked by day
Under mantle grey
And hood of clouded blue;..."


Mantle gray.
hood of clouded blue.

"... And her slippers frail
Of fishes' mail..."


Salmon skin has been used by the Sami in sweden for a long time, maybe something similar?

"...With pearls in hair
And kirtle fair
And slippers frail
Of fishes' mail went Mee:
Of fishes' mail
And slippers frail
And kirtle fair
With pearls in hair went Shee!"
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby Iodo » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:48 am

I think the most interesting thing in there is the hood and mantle, for some reason I always imagined elves in hooded cloaks
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
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Darnokthemage
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby Darnokthemage » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:40 pm

"a figure strongly built with broad shoulder, though shorter than the average of men and now stooped with age, leaning on a thick rough-cut staff as he trudged along...Gandalf's hat was wide-brimmed (a shady hat, H. p. 14) with a pointed conical crown, and it was blue; he wore a long grey cloak, but this would not reach much below his knees. It was an elven silver-grey hue, though tarnished by wear--as is evident by the general use of grey in the book...But his colors were always white, silver-grey, and blue--except for the boots he wore when walking in the wild...Gandalf even bent must have been at least 5 ft. 6...Which would make him a short man even in modern England, especially with the reduction of a bent back."


Quite an interesting description of Gandalf from an unpublished note by Tolkien. Quoted in the history of the hobbit. Note the "Elven Silver-grey hue"
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby Darnokthemage » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:58 pm

Image

Other of Tolkiens favorite artists (Mary Fairburn)depiction of Galadriel.
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Re: The Elves! The elves! What are we going to do with the Elves!

Postby SierraStrider » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:57 pm

Darnokthemage wrote:The poem about Princess Mee states some quite fantastical but still interesting things about her dress;

"She had pearls in hair
All threaded fair;
Of gossamer shot with gold
Was her kerchief made,
And a silver braid
Of stars about her throat.
Of moth-web light
All moonlit-white..."


A gossamer and gold Kercheif!
Silver braid of moth web?
...
"... And her slippers frail
Of fishes' mail..."


Salmon skin has been used by the Sami in sweden for a long time, maybe something similar?

"...With pearls in hair
And kirtle fair
And slippers frail
Of fishes' mail went Mee:
Of fishes' mail
And slippers frail
And kirtle fair
With pearls in hair went Shee!"


"Moth Web" is a very poetic way of describing silk.

I've never heard of using fish leather. I'm surprised you can tan it strong eough, though I've only ever encountered it in a culinary context, which I suppose is sort of the opposite of tanning it.

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