Good source of wma manuals.

Western(esse) Martial Arts / Numenorean Martial Arts....

Combat and self-defense in Middle-earth

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Asbjorn
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Good source of wma manuals.

Postby Asbjorn » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:41 am

So i started to look for hema manuals online because RangerofAngmar pointed out that Talhoffer's medieval fighting manual might have some techniques that works for spears and came across a site with free pdfs for all sorts of books.

Here are some of the ones i found interesting.

https://kupdf.net/download/fencing-1467 ... a88e81_pdf
Talhoffer's medieval fighting manual.

https://kupdf.net/download/the-fighting ... 959e94_pdf
Love this, some good techniques for those that want to use an axe.

https://kupdf.net/download/archery-2012 ... 54c796_pdf
Abit modern archery but much information still applies.

https://kupdf.net/download/art-of-war-a ... 959e9d_pdf
One of the best translations to the art of war i have read.
Heilir hildar til, heilir hildi frá, koma þeir heilir hvaðan.
Safe into battle, safe out of battle, and safe return from the strife.
RangerofAngmar
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Re: Good source of wma manuals.

Postby RangerofAngmar » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:16 pm

this site has almost everything

https://wiktenauer.com/
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Asbjorn
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Re: Good source of wma manuals.

Postby Asbjorn » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:25 am

Thank you that helps alot:)
Heilir hildar til, heilir hildi frá, koma þeir heilir hvaðan.
Safe into battle, safe out of battle, and safe return from the strife.
RangerofAngmar
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Re: Good source of wma manuals.

Postby RangerofAngmar » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:12 am

No problems my friend
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Asbjorn
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Re: Good source of wma manuals.

Postby Asbjorn » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:13 am

I was wondering if somebody knows any western martial arts that talks about stealth or camouflage?
I know it is briefly metioned in VEGETIUS’ EPITOME OF MILITARY SCIENCE, but that is more in passing when he talks about ambushes and raids.
Heilir hildar til, heilir hildi frá, koma þeir heilir hvaðan.
Safe into battle, safe out of battle, and safe return from the strife.
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Greg
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Re: Good source of wma manuals.

Postby Greg » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:19 am

There are others who could correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that those concepts weren't applied to warfare (or much at all) until much later periods...I think Roger's Rangers and other similar new-world approaches to the topic are going to be about the earliest you can find.
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RangerofAngmar
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Re: Good source of wma manuals.

Postby RangerofAngmar » Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:30 am

Yeah i cannot think of any medieval texts deal with the subject at all. most are for either warfare, dueling or trying to preserve the Martial art.
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Asbjorn
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Re: Good source of wma manuals.

Postby Asbjorn » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:03 am

I started to look into medieval texts about hunting to see if i could get some ideas and info from them but i only found texts about hunting with dogs and birds.
Heilir hildar til, heilir hildi frá, koma þeir heilir hvaðan.
Safe into battle, safe out of battle, and safe return from the strife.
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Eofor
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Re: Good source of wma manuals.

Postby Eofor » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:14 am

Just a thought but you may want to consider things relative to the persona you are building.

- Where do you live?
- What do you do?
- What are you hunting?
- In what terrain?
- In what climate?

That might help you narrow your search towards military/hunting texts and sources from a similar time and culture.
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Asbjorn
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Re: Good source of wma manuals.

Postby Asbjorn » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:51 am

I do have some ideas for my persona, i know he is gonna be a beorning that grew up with a family of rangers thats watching the inlet to the baranduin river so that no pirates can sail up to the shire.
I know most of the terrain is going to be ocean with islands near the south coast line and the climate is going to mild with high temperature the 20 degrees celsius an low temperature in the minus 15 degrees celsius.
The forest will mostly be pine and beech trees and most of the hunting will be small animals like rabbits and such. Most of the time my persona will be island hoopping to watch out for pirates trying to get to the inlet of the river unseen so they can ambush the residents further up the river.


But mostly i find it interesting that asian martial arts have a martial arts that have tought so much about infiltration and and deception and we have nothing like it here in the wma, so was looking at hunting texts to see if there was anything written down about stalking and tracking that could match what ninjutsu had written in their texts.
Heilir hildar til, heilir hildi frá, koma þeir heilir hvaðan.
Safe into battle, safe out of battle, and safe return from the strife.
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Taurinor
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Re: Good source of wma manuals.

Postby Taurinor » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:59 pm

You might be interested in looking into the ambush tactics used by Gemanic tribes against the Romans in the Battle of Teutoburg Forest; that's one of the few examples of early guerrilla warfare that I can think of at the moment. To be fair, that was in part an inside job, but you might find it interesting. I don't know that those tactics were common (I doubt they were used at all, honestly) in medieval warfare, though.

Stealth and camouflage really don't fit with the high medieval ideas of honor and chivalry, so I wouldn't expect to find much in the fight books. I'm not suggesting that everyone educated in combat in the Middle Ages exemplified those ideals, but I think they would have been taught with them in mind.

The late medieval huntbooks don't seem to talk much about stalking or camouflage. Exploring the Medieval Hunt discusses camouflage in their "Hunters clothes" blog post; they focus on three 14th/15th century, Western European books on hunting, and other than wearing green and grey and the occasional use of branches, there is not much discussion of blending into the environment. It's worth keeping in mind that those texts describe the ritualized sport of hunting as practiced by the privileged in the High Middle Ages - it was more of combination of social gathering and practice for war than something that looks like modern hunting. I imagine earlier hunters or some contemporary poachers may have been stealthier (some poachers were quite brazen, though!), but it seems like less was written about that.

The Master of Game (written by Edward of Norwich, 2nd Duke of York, between 1406 and 1413) briefly discusses "how a hunter should go in quest by the sight", i.e. how someone should go find a deer without a lymer for the hunting party to pursue with dogs and horses, and states that "he should go to the newly hewn wood of the forest or other places where he hopes best to see a hart, and keep always from coming into the wind of the hart, he should also climb upon a tree so that the hart shall wind nothing of him, and that he can see him further. And if he sees a hart standing stably he must look well in what country he shall go to his lair, and privily repair to some place where he can best see him and there break a bough for a mark." So, stay downwind and hide in a tree, but not really a discussion of stalking.

If you're interested in stealth, you may want to look at a later time period and read "Some Thoughts on Scouts and Spies" by Gerry Barker. It discusses scouting in the American frontier in the 18th century, which is a little later than most of us look for Middle-earth inspiration, but it's a popular book on this forum. The international shipping may be somewhat cost-prohibitive at the moment, though.
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Asbjorn
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Re: Good source of wma manuals.

Postby Asbjorn » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:31 pm

Taurinor tank you for the info and i found Some thoughts on scouts and spies in pdf form for 50kr(5 dollar) so will just print those so that i have it in my hand.
Heilir hildar til, heilir hildi frá, koma þeir heilir hvaðan.
Safe into battle, safe out of battle, and safe return from the strife.

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