Quiver quandary

Western(esse) Martial Arts / Numenorean Martial Arts....

Combat and self-defense in Middle-earth

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Kortoso
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Quiver quandary

Postby Kortoso » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:36 pm

Curious about The Professor's insistence in calling out "back-quivers" for his archer heroes, I assumed that back quivers were all the rage during the heyday of the Victorian archery revival. And that perhaps he was influenced by this. (Although Tolkien was post-Victorian.)

I just came across some pics that suggest the opposite.
Image
Image
Image

It's not hard to find these pics. What's hard is, finding any illustrations of back quivers in a Victorian context.
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Re: Quiver quandary

Postby Kortoso » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:28 pm

And uh-oh.
Image
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Elleth
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Re: Quiver quandary

Postby Elleth » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:28 pm

My understanding of the conventional wisdom is that it goes something like this:

North American native archery => Howard Hill (and others) in early 20th c. => Errol Flynn Robin Hood/popular consciousness => Tolkien

But I freely confess that's just speculation I heard somewhere along the way, not a well-researched opinion.

That said, we do also see back quivers in the Classical world, so it's not like the idea's unheard of in the pre-contact European tradition.
Personally, I'm not gonna rethink things now, at least for Middle Earth.

Both work. :)
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Re: Quiver quandary

Postby Greg » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:18 pm

Eleth's pretty much nailed it. Every Robin Hood pre-year 2000 from Errol Flynn on followed this convention.

There's only one step missing: North American Natives -> Saxton Pope -> Howard Hill -> Errol Flynn -> Popular Consciousness ->Tolkien.
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Re: Quiver quandary

Postby Kortoso » Mon May 01, 2017 4:17 pm

With regrets:
Hunting with the Bow and Arrow
By Saxton Pope, 1923.

Such a receptacle will hold a dozen broad-heads very comfortably and several more under pressure. It should swing from a belt at the right hip in such a way that in walking it does not touch the leg, while in shooting it is accessible to the right hand or may then be shifted slightly to the front for convenience.

:wink:
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Re: Quiver quandary

Postby Elleth » Mon May 01, 2017 6:57 pm

Nice catch! But also found this searching for the reference....
Sometimes, in going through brush or when running, we carry the quiver on a belt slung over the left shoulder. Here they are out of the way and give the legs full action.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/8084/8084-h/8084-h.htm

(this looks like a fascinating book - I can't wait to get a chance to read it!)
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Re: Quiver quandary

Postby Greg » Thu May 04, 2017 1:12 am

Haven't read him extensively, but I know he used them. He was HEAVILY influenced by native Americans, including (of course) Ishi. Doesn't mean that he used a back quiver exclusively, but he was the necessary gap-filler between the natives and Howard Hill.
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