Middle Earth and Helmets

[Greg]

Myself, actually. Just last night I slipped the sugarloaf over a log and rapped on the back a bit to stretch the helm's diameter front-to-back to give myself some extra nose room. As it was, I couldn't have fit any padding between my nose and the helmet if I tried...don't even WANT to think of what would've happened to my nose were I to wear it while sparring and get hit, well...anywhere on the front.

[Mirimaran]

I hear ya. I wonder if any of our friends who spar in SCA or WMA can weigh in on this.

[Eledhwen]

I have a sugarloaf of 14 gauge stainless. The sugarloaf helm was a great helm. That is, it was usually worn over a skull cap and/or a heavily padded mail coif. It had a suspension system in it not terribly different from the sorts we know today. It was never meant to sit directly on the head itself.

That being said, a lot of Scadians simply pad them with foam and that is that. They fill the top peak so it will not slide down. Helmets are like hats...there is no one size fits all. In the SCA they require an inch of padding in the helm so the helm needs to be that much larger than the head to accommodate the padding.

Period padding was, in its best incarnation, horse belly hair wound up in tail hairs and stuffed into tubes. Failing that, layered and quilted wool. There are extant pieces of the horsehair padding that are as protective as they were originally.

It sounds to me like your helmet is a small sized one. There should be plenty of space for your head and nose; it should be loose and absolutely require padding...a suspension system would be better.

My head is 23" in circumference. My sugarloaf is quite a bit larger than that and is oval in section, not round. Note most human heads are not round.

There are a lot of 18 gauge replicas out there that are in fact small scale versions.

Hope that helps

Eledhwen

[Greg]

Good to know!

You're probably right; I'm willing to bet mine's a bit on the small side. It's certainly small on me. I'm not planning on using it for anything contact-wise...perhaps a friend with a head that's smaller front-to-back than mine could make use of it.

Good to know about that 1" gap all around rule. I'm not in the SCA, but rules are typically in place for a reason, so I'll see about making sure the helm I'm working on fits into that ballpark.

Thanks!

[E.MacKermak]

We only require 1/2 inch of foam now, and a good chinstrap. The chinstrap is what usually keeps the front from hitting your face. You can do a search for ways to make a sewn liner. You can also buy linen helmet liners online. Are you planning to actually fight in it? A good 4 point chinstrap should work to keep it off your face.

[Eledhwen]

I use a sewn liner and we require a chinstrap that cups or brackets the chin. Cannot be a single strap here. Things vary; Ansteorra uses minimal armor..that is, the SCA minimum, for example. Kingdoms can add to it but not detract from it. So you will find variance.

I use an inch of padding as that was what was required when I made my helm. Concussions are not funny and stay with you for life. If you are going to get hit, make sure it fits. I have been concussed in a helm by a pole shaft strike, and have other concussions unrelated to fighting. I tend to err on the side of safety. I like fighting...but I like being able to think straight and function correctly too. LOL

Eledhwen

[E.MacKermak]

Did you make or buy yours? I have a new SCA helm I need to pad and strap and was looking at a sewn liner.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack.

[Greg]

I'd call this on-topic. If anyone's gonna wear a helmet, it's gonna need some padding...

[Eledhwen]

Used to buy them, now I make them. Currently I work on Roman and Late Roman models. Burgh Castle is my particular favorite, which is what a lot of the Rohirrim helms in the movie were based off..along with Coppergate and Intercissa.

Eledhwen

[Duathen]

And here's yet more inspiration, with a decidedly fantasy bend (but some of the best Tolkien-inspired concept art I've seen): http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php?topic=117.0

[David]

And here's yet more inspiration, with a decidedly fantasy bend (but some of the best Tolkien-inspired concept art I've seen): http://mbx.streetofeyes.com/index.php?topic=117.0

Wow...that's some amazing art!

[dwayne davis]

Hey Greg. i finally found this link. used it another thread.http://radio-weblogs.com/0116391/storie ... Earth.html
its got some possable ideas for a dwarven helm.

[Yavion]

This thread from MyArmoury.com has some truly lovely bits in it that I think would suit a ranger well.
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic ... highlight=

[Ringulf]

I was just cruising some of the older posts and this one caught my eye.
Sorry to necropost but I was thinking that the sugar loaf looks very knightly and was a contemporary of the Ranger/Forester/Yoeman types in the Norman/Saxon period and the crusades and such.
That being the case I could see knights such as the knights of the Prince of Doth Amroth using such a model. (perhaps as the base for some more decorated version even.)
If a ranger was to sacrifice speed and agility for protection, he might don this along with heavier armor. (the right tools for the right job as long as you are trained in their use)

I lean toward the Viking /Dwarven style of spangenhelm and thought of the mixture of Gimli and a Norse warrior and got this:






This one has the elements of metal in the banding for protection and the lighter wieght of the boiled leather for it's spangens (theoretically)

But it was not always so...I went through a bunch of designs to get to my final destination(thus far or before coming to MERF).






(just kidding)

Most of my stuff was made for larp oute of balistic nylon or heavy plastic. There is a product called "Wonderflex that is used in one off design and stage and movie props that is very strong and protective when layered. Weta uses it,

I actually made a helm and tested it with padding and rettan and it held up better than an constuction hard hat. But I digress,
All of my larp helmets came from designs made for metal construction and would be easy to convert.

The one I use for SCA looks almost exactly like this one:


But I have seen some Sutton Hoo types and this last one that could be much like the discription Tolkien gave of the Dwarven face visor types:






And finally when it comes right down to it any of the LOTR movie hems for the warriors of Rohan look great to me! Even the ones worn by shieldmaidens incognito!

[Kiriana]

Oh WOW nice!!