Today I learned a thing...

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RangerofAngmar
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby RangerofAngmar » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:02 pm

Elleth wrote:
RangerofAngmar wrote:unless of course you are able to shoot without and anchor point, which is hard to get used to but possible to learn and get accurate at


Once I really grokked how I was instinct-shooting, this made more sense.
I think Brian Ferguson's Become the Arrow might talk about the practice: I've not had a chance to do more than flip through the pages, but by the title it certainly sounds like the same technique.

I rarely shoot off anchor - not least because with any significant poundage I've not not the arm strength to do it well - but it's a nice trick in the toolbox for weird angles bending around brush. :mrgreen:



yeah it works well and you can get some pretty good shots from awkward positions or around and over things.

i have found personally that if I point at the target with both pointer fingers (i use a thumb draw) i am pretty accurate most of the time due to the fact that when we point we naturally point at an object even it is isnt in the line of sight
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Greg
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby Greg » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:50 pm

RangerofAngmar wrote:I think Brian Ferguson's Become the Arrow might talk about the practice: I've not had a chance to do more than flip through the pages, but by the title it certainly sounds like the same technique.

To summarize what I believe is Ferguson's technique (haven't read his book), it's known by some as split-vision. He aims instinctively, as per trusting one's arms and eyes to track accurately together towards a point, but he also maintains a conscious awareness of his arrow in his field of vision, and aligns the blurry arrow in his peripheral with the target as well, which is somewhat like a gap-shooter would. Instinct accounts for distances/arc as well as accuracy, while the visual awareness of his arrow ensures that his anchor is properly reached and his form isn't pulling it out of line with the intended target. This is how I shoot, actually, because I've had a longtime tendency to not hold at anchor. I use this peripheral awareness to make sure that I'm getting my arrow to its proper 'plane' while I'm drilling that mental hole in the smallest spot I can focus on with my eyes so that when I get to full draw and the arrow flies, everything's where it should be.
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RangerofAngmar
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby RangerofAngmar » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:11 pm

Greg wrote:
RangerofAngmar wrote:I think Brian Ferguson's Become the Arrow might talk about the practice: I've not had a chance to do more than flip through the pages, but by the title it certainly sounds like the same technique.

To summarize what I believe is Ferguson's technique (haven't read his book), it's known by some as split-vision. He aims instinctively, as per trusting one's arms and eyes to track accurately together towards a point, but he also maintains a conscious awareness of his arrow in his field of vision, and aligns the blurry arrow in his peripheral with the target as well, which is somewhat like a gap-shooter would. Instinct accounts for distances/arc as well as accuracy, while the visual awareness of his arrow ensures that his anchor is properly reached and his form isn't pulling it out of line with the intended target. This is how I shoot, actually, because I've had a longtime tendency to not hold at anchor. I use this peripheral awareness to make sure that I'm getting my arrow to its proper 'plane' while I'm drilling that mental hole in the smallest spot I can focus on with my eyes so that when I get to full draw and the arrow flies, everything's where it should be.


and once you become used to shooting like this you end up being a better shot then you thought you would be. I am also pretty sure this is how Lars Anderson does some of his trick shots in his videos as well, because alot of those are not done with a real anchor point
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby Cimrandir » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:09 am

So here's a question for the more archery minded folks while the topic is at hand. All this conversation about not using anchor points and short bows has me wondering where the limit is regarding draw lengths and short bows. I am a rather tall guy (6'5") with a matching long draw length. Shorter bows make more sense for wandering the forest but my archery experience is with longbows drawn back to an anchor point and I feel like for someone of my stature it'd be a little odd to run around with a short bow half the size of my draw and I. Is that something I could compensate for or would it be best to stick with what I know? I have no interest in ever getting up to the 100 pound+ warbows and plan to stick to a nice manageable 50-65ish pounds.
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby RangerofAngmar » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:25 am

Cimrandir wrote:So here's a question for the more archery minded folks while the topic is at hand. All this conversation about not using anchor points and short bows has me wondering where the limit is regarding draw lengths and short bows. I am a rather tall guy (6'5") with a matching long draw length. Shorter bows make more sense for wandering the forest but my archery experience is with longbows drawn back to an anchor point and I feel like for someone of my stature it'd be a little odd to run around with a short bow half the size of my draw and I. Is that something I could compensate for or would it be best to stick with what I know? I have no interest in ever getting up to the 100 pound+ warbows and plan to stick to a nice manageable 50-65ish pounds.



i dont think it would look odd man, and it is more practical to use the shorter bow so if you were interested give it a go and see how it feels.

i hope to one day get myself a replica Mary Rose bow with a draw weight of over 100 pounds, would be pretty awesome to fire one off.

the 2 bows i currently run with a recurves, one is 65# and the other is 30#
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby Elleth » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:12 pm

another one of those super-obvious-deer-highways that wouldn't have been obvious at all to me a few years ago.
It's amazing what just living around the things does for your eye.

Better yet honestly is raising sheep: their walking patterns are similar, and the trails they wear look almost identical (at least to my eye).

Here we go -

merf-deer-path.jpg
merf-deer-path.jpg (134.03 KiB) Viewed 522 times
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Elleth
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby Elleth » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:19 pm

... and here's what you're looking for:

1. See those "streaks" of bare spot in the foreground? What's happened is that the deer have compressed the earth into a bit of a hollow where they regularly walk: the fallen leaves collect in that hollow, while the light breeze has blown away the leaves to either side of the path. (much more obvious in person, I'll admit).

2. The same compression of the earth and passing of the animals has kept a clearing through the high brush in the mid-background. This is a self-reinforcing thing. First one animal pushes through the brush. That beats it back a bit, so the next follows in the same path. Then the next, and the next... enough critters in the same place for long enough and it gets worn down to dirt. Here the critters are few enough with enough space to meander that no one trail gets much more beaten down than this.


merf-deer-path-labeled.jpg
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Elleth
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby Elleth » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:34 pm

This track was a ways off in another part of the woods. It's on a slope up super-soft cruft, so the track took really well.

It seems unusually pointy to me... critter's going uphill, so I don't think it's digging its hoof in. Anyone got any ideas? I'm almost put in mind our sheep when they need a hoof trimming...

merf-deer-track.jpg
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Will o’ the Wild
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby Will o’ the Wild » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:42 am

I love these. Especially since I could see this one a little before you pointed it out.
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Peter Remling
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby Peter Remling » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:43 am

Looks like it dragged that hoof pushing some of the material forward before setting it down all the way.
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby Elleth » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:29 pm

hrm... could be!

Here's another I found today in another part of the forest: it has more of the "heart shape" I'm accustomed to seeing:
merf-heart-track.jpg
merf-heart-track.jpg (83.13 KiB) Viewed 279 times


And lunch!!!
merf-nom-nom-acorns.jpg
merf-nom-nom-acorns.jpg (132.72 KiB) Viewed 279 times


This is an interesting story: it looks like a birch tree fell and some of the bark got caught on that little sapling. Then the tall birch started rotting away, and all this time the sapling's been just continuing to grow up through that coil of bark.
Wild!
merf-birch-wrapped.jpg
merf-birch-wrapped.jpg (137.92 KiB) Viewed 279 times


By the way, that last is the "murder hill" that's just about near impossible for me to cross in smooth-soled boots. No matter how I grab with my toes or arch my foot or whatever else, leaves and needles just keep wanting to slide out and dump me on my tuckuss. Probably takes me longer to make my way down or across this guy than any three other slopes together. grrrr... :mrgreen:
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Greg
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby Greg » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:49 pm

Cimrandir wrote:So here's a question for the more archery minded folks while the topic is at hand. All this conversation about not using anchor points and short bows has me wondering where the limit is regarding draw lengths and short bows. I am a rather tall guy (6'5") with a matching long draw length. Shorter bows make more sense for wandering the forest but my archery experience is with longbows drawn back to an anchor point and I feel like for someone of my stature it'd be a little odd to run around with a short bow half the size of my draw and I. Is that something I could compensate for or would it be best to stick with what I know? I have no interest in ever getting up to the 100 pound+ warbows and plan to stick to a nice manageable 50-65ish pounds.

Don't know how I missed this...

Shorter bows are rather open to interpretation. When people say "shorter bows are better in brush", they're largely talking about the times between the use of the bow...hiking and otherwise traveling. I see this coming up especially often when talking to people who strap bows to their backs/quivers a la film examples. I feel that the size of a bow when shooting isn't all that important unless you're deliberately wading into thick briar/brush (which is going to ruin your shot no matter how short your bow is) and then you'll likely have the issue of a struggle in retreat if necessary.

Most modern laminated or fiberglass longbow-makers consider 62-66" to be a standard length, and 58" to be the "short" or "Brush-friendly" model. When 48" bows and the like come up for discussion here, I've found over the years that the benefits don't necessarily outweigh the drawbacks. I used to be all about 48" bows, but shot quality suffers pretty dramatically at that length with conventional bows. Shot quality should always trump carrying convenience, or you're carrying it for the wrong reasons. My opinions have changed significantly on this matter in the last four years or so as I've been more actively pursuing game and less actively pursing a particular carrying method, harness, etc., and so I feel the proof is in the pudding. For a 6'5" guy, a 64", 66", 68" longbow really shouldn't be a problem at all. A full draw is DEFINITELY preferable to a short one.
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby Manveruon » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:02 pm

Greg wrote:
Cimrandir wrote:So here's a question for the more archery minded folks while the topic is at hand. All this conversation about not using anchor points and short bows has me wondering where the limit is regarding draw lengths and short bows. I am a rather tall guy (6'5") with a matching long draw length. Shorter bows make more sense for wandering the forest but my archery experience is with longbows drawn back to an anchor point and I feel like for someone of my stature it'd be a little odd to run around with a short bow half the size of my draw and I. Is that something I could compensate for or would it be best to stick with what I know? I have no interest in ever getting up to the 100 pound+ warbows and plan to stick to a nice manageable 50-65ish pounds.

Don't know how I missed this...

Shorter bows are rather open to interpretation. When people say "shorter bows are better in brush", they're largely talking about the times between the use of the bow...hiking and otherwise traveling. I see this coming up especially often when talking to people who strap bows to their backs/quivers a la film examples. I feel that the size of a bow when shooting isn't all that important unless you're deliberately wading into thick briar/brush (which is going to ruin your shot no matter how short your bow is) and then you'll likely have the issue of a struggle in retreat if necessary.

Most modern laminated or fiberglass longbow-makers consider 62-66" to be a standard length, and 58" to be the "short" or "Brush-friendly" model. When 48" bows and the like come up for discussion here, I've found over the years that the benefits don't necessarily outweigh the drawbacks. I used to be all about 48" bows, but shot quality suffers pretty dramatically at that length with conventional bows. Shot quality should always trump carrying convenience, or you're carrying it for the wrong reasons. My opinions have changed significantly on this matter in the last four years or so as I've been more actively pursuing game and less actively pursing a particular carrying method, harness, etc., and so I feel the proof is in the pudding. For a 6'5" guy, a 64", 66", 68" longbow really shouldn't be a problem at all. A full draw is DEFINITELY preferable to a short one.



I don’t have the same amount of experience with this stuff as Greg does, but this logic tracks very well to me, and I generally find myself of similar opinions. I can safely say, too, that my very short Korean recurve is a great little shooter, but it is SO MUCH LESS FORGIVING in the release than my English longbow, and I can only imagine that a non-recurved bow of a similar length would only be even more tricky.
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Greg
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby Greg » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:41 pm

Elleth wrote:This is an interesting story: it looks like a birch tree fell and some of the bark got caught on that little sapling. Then the tall birch started rotting away, and all this time the sapling's been just continuing to grow up through that coil of bark.
Wild!
merf-birch-wrapped.jpg

Looks like nature did the hard work for you! I'd be harvesting that for kindling and such in a heartbeat!
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Re: Today I learned a thing...

Postby Elleth » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:37 pm

Looks like nature did the hard work for you! I'd be harvesting that for kindling and such in a heartbeat!


Ha!

... honestly I thought it was kinda cool-looking, so I let it be when I was out there. But I probably should get it off before next spring so it doesn't choke out the sapling.

I did get some fresher birchbark while I was out poking around that spot: I've used it as kindling, but never tinder. I'll have to try that! :mrgreen:

Regarding short bows and ease of use... is that because longer limbs have a stabilizing effect, like using a pole on a balance beam? Or because you can anchor more consistently? Both/neither/something else?
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