A question about the House of Elendil.

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Cimrandir
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A question about the House of Elendil.

Post by Cimrandir »

So I've been wondering about this for quite a while. Admittedly, this question could probably be answered by reading The Silmarillion but I don't have the time right now.

Anyway, why exactly is there a reason for having a steward ruling Gondor? I mean, why isn't the House of Elendil in power? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it states in the LOTR that the House in is exile. But why? I mean, when you're in exile, that usually means that the enemy in currently in your home. But the orcs don't rule Gondor. So how did the House come to be in the West, a shadow of their former glory?

These question probably don't make any sense and for that I'm sorry. But if anyone could help me understand them, I would be deeply grateful.

Thanks,
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Re: A question about the House of Elendil.

Post by Ernildir »

Alright... so at one time, a King Ondoher ruled the kingdom. Unfortunately, he and all his sons were slain in battle with the Wainriders. This left the question of who should gain the throne a rather controversial topic. Two men laid a claim to the throne. One was Earnil, a direct descent of Elendil's son Anarion. The second was Arvedui, a direct descendant of Elendil's son Isildur. Arvedui had also married Ondoher's daughter Firiel (both Ondoher and Firiel were descendants of Anarion), strengthening his claim. However, the South-kingdom belonged to the line of Anarion by rights, and it was determined that succession should not operate through women (Firiel) so the kingship was given to Earnil. Earnil was succeeded by his son Earnur. Earnur was later challenged to single combat by the Witch-king of Angmar, rode off with a few of his knights to meet him in battle, and was never heard from again. The stewards then took up the rule with the oath "to hold rod and rule in the name of the king, until he shall return." And so it remained for many generations. Arvedui's claim to the throne was not forgotten, but he was killed in a shipwreck in Forochel, and the North-kingdom was sundered by the ravages of Angmar. His son, Aranarth, became the first Chieftain of the Dunedain, ruling the scattered Northern remnant of Arnor. The Chieftains did not reinvoke their claim to the throne for many generations, perhaps due to insufficient power. Eventually, Aranarth's descendant Aragorn, the sixteenth Chieftain of the Dunedain, whom we are all familiar with, led a pivotal role in the destruction of Sauron, and claimed the thrones of both Gondor and Arnor (being descended both from Isildur and Anarion, thanks to the marriage of Arvedui to Firiel), forming the reunited kingdom.

In summary, the House is in exile because nobody knows what happened to the king, and the other claim to the throne was rejected, its descendants ruling the Dunedain in the wilderness.
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Re: A question about the House of Elendil.

Post by Cimrandir »

Most enlightning. Thanks a million!
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Re: A question about the House of Elendil.

Post by Ernildir »

You're quite welcome!
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Re: A question about the House of Elendil.

Post by Eledhwen »

The House of Elendil was, along with the others who came over the sea, considered 'in exile' because of the destruction of Numenor. Heirs to Numenorean glory.

The rest of it is on target..but the 'exile' portion predates the sundering of the Kingdoms of Middle Earth.

If memory serves. I will look it up in detail later.

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Re: A question about the House of Elendil.

Post by Cleddyf »

Ernildhir wrote: In summary, the House is in exile because nobody knows what happened to the king, and the other claim to the throne was rejected, its descendants ruling the Dunedain in the wilderness.
that and no one wanted another war over the sucession
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Re: A question about the House of Elendil.

Post by Ernildir »

Eledhwen wrote:The House of Elendil was, along with the others who came over the sea, considered 'in exile' because of the destruction of Numenor. Heirs to Numenorean glory.

The rest of it is on target..but the 'exile' portion predates the sundering of the Kingdoms of Middle Earth.

If memory serves. I will look it up in detail later.

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Eledhwen -- this sounded exciting, so I looked into it. You're quite right. Arnor and Gondor were called the "Numenorean realms in exile". There were also some indications that Aragorn and the Chieftains of the Dunedain might have been considered by Tolkien to have been exiles in a second sense -- exiles from their rightful throne, but it didn't seem completely clear to me from the text. Whatever the case, I think it's more exciting to think of the whole kingdom and its people as being in exile rather than only the ruling kings.
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Re: A question about the House of Elendil.

Post by Eledhwen »

Nice to know my memory hasn't gone. LOL

I never considered Aragorn and company to be 'exiles'...there was a Steward in Gondor against the return of the King after all. Granted they all thought the line had ended, but the Elves knew better as did some of the Dunedain. So in a strict sense they would not be exiles per se, in my opinion. No one had sent them away and forbidden their return as was the case with Numenor....Elendil and company knew bad things were coming and departed Numenor which was destoryed, permanently leaving them without a home to return to.

I never noticed any hints towards Aragorn and antecedents being exiles..that is interesting. I will have to go delve into it and see if I can find that! Thank you!

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Re: A question about the House of Elendil.

Post by Ernildir »

This is all I could find that might support the view of a secondary exile of the Chieftains.

Sheer rose the dreadful cliffs to unguessed heights on either side. Far off was the dim sky. The black waters roared and echoed, and a wind screamed over them. Frodo crouching over his knees heard Sam in front muttering and groaning: "What a place! What a horrible place! Just let me get out of this boat, and I'll never wet my toes in a puddle again, let alone a river! '

"Fear not! ' said a strange voice behind him. Frodo turned and saw Strider, and yet not Strider; for the weatherworn Ranger was no longer there. In the stern sat Aragorn son of Arathorn, proud and erect, guiding the boat with skilful strokes; his hood was cast back, and his dark hair was blowing in the wind, a light was in his eyes: a king returning from exile to his own land.


Returning from exile implies that the exile might end when he returns to his land. Since all the Dunedain of Arnor and Gondor are already exiles of Numenor, that particular exile can never end. So in order for Aragorn to return from an exile, it seems that there is a possibility that there could be this concept of a secondary exile of the Chieftains from their throne.
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Re: A question about the House of Elendil.

Post by Eledhwen »

Ah, I see what you mean. Funny, but I do not read that as literally exiled...simple a descriptive passage to illustrate his expression.

Interesting! Thank you. :)

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Re: A question about the House of Elendil.

Post by Mirimaran »

I tend to agree with Eledhwen concerning the use of the word, here is the Cambridge definition:

"the condition of someone being sent or kept away from their own country, village, etc., especially for political reasons"

Seeing as he was going to Gondor, Tolkien might have been using a bit of word play; Aragorn did have a legal and legitimate claim to the throne of Gondor, and he seemed regal to Frodo. As Frodo had recorded the scene, it might have been his own impression of how Aragorn appeared to him.
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Re: A question about the House of Elendil.

Post by Ernildir »

I agree -- it could very well have been only a descriptive tactic. This was the only passage concerning the concept that I could find, and it does seem rather open to interpretation, so it's quite inconclusive. I don't have an opinion one way or another. I just like thinking of the Numenorean realms in exile now. That's good enough for me. :lol:
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
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