Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

For discussion of Dunedain culture, what it might have looked like and how it worked.

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Greg
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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Greg »

And here I was, thinking that my Numenorean assumption of piping was merely an assumption. It stands to reason, however, that the Numenorean piping could be considered to be of Elvish origins, seeing how Numenor is the first and only mention of it amongst the Edain, to our knowledge...thoughts?


P.S. I really need to get my hands on an electronic copy...searching would become infinitely easier.
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Digging through some old posts and...

Post by Greg »

...saw this:
Elleth wrote: came along with me today. Nicely enough, it fits perfectly in the quiver -

Image

I remember so many years ago when reading the books, coming across a line to the effect of "and he took out his harp and played" when a number were gathered around a campfire. (I don't think it was LOtR - Sil maybe, or Lost Tales? or even Hobbit? ) Anyhow, I always pictured a smaller version of the classic Irish "Guinness" harp, and I confess that and the Dragonsinger novels were no small part of why I learned the harp in the first place.
Two questions-what can you tell me about that flute (ie. Maker, materials, key, etc.). -and- what kind of harp do you play? Do you have any videos or clips of you playing?
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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Eledhwen »

That photo looks more like a recorder to me. The 'Guinness' harp is called a 'Clarsach'. A specific type of harp of Ireland and Scotland. I have patterned one up for building over the Winter. These tend to be shorter in the body (a bit wider at the foot) with a more pronounced harmonic curve. Traditionally they are wire strung, did not have bridge pins, and of course, had no sharping levers. All of which can be added today. The 'Brian Boru' harp is of this sort, which is what the Guinness harp is modeled on, if memory serves.

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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Elleth »

Howdy!

Sorry all, I've been out of town.

The flute is an Irish 6-hole flute by Ralph Sweet, "budget Maple"
http://www.sweetheartflute.com/irishflutes.html
(eek! They've gone up!)

Harp: gosh, it's been a while. I play both an old nylon-strung neo-Celtic folk harp I got from Lark in the Morning waaay back, and a wire strung clarsach from a gentleman in Scotland - ah! William MacDonald. It's a copy of the Queen Mary harp, albeit without any decoration.

Sadly, I've had very little time for either of late. I am most definitely a bit out of practice. :(

Recordings: Not immediately at hand, but come Christmas season I expect farm work to slack off enough I might be able to manage something. :)
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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Eledhwen »

Look forward to it!

Never seen a six hole flute like that before. I prefer Native American flutes due to the haunting sound they have. Works well with lamentations.

I have a Hummingbird 23...my first harp, I got that one back in...mmm, '89? Something like that. Just before the lap harp craze hit. Second one was a Stoney End Lorraine 29. Third one an Argent Fox 22. Fourth one a Thormahlen custom 36. The one I am building at the moment is a Dreamsinger 26. I have a lyre, ten string David sort, or based on that one anyway. I got a load of plans and blueprints for harps and lyres so I sorted out a set for a clarseach to build over the Winter. Yeah, I kinda got infected by the Harper thing. Does not hurt that my grandfather used to play a harp and tell me stories to it when I was very young. The Welsh and Irish blood probably does not hurt either.

Having those commercial harps is nice, but I want to make my own, so the Dreamsinger 26 kit was an essay into the craft. Took some study in building harps..just harps mind, so not a luthier per se. Got a good lot of wood seasoned up for the purpose, taught myself to draw wire strings, and I can forge my own tapered pins. Not as well as I'd like in the last two, but I'm getting there. :)

Er..yeah, I love harps. Everything to do with them. Telling stories with them is my favorite. Myths, Legends, Tales of Valor and Dastardly Deeds.

Being a Bard and Druid kind of helps a little? Or well, at least feeds the frenzy. A little.

My mother was a music teacher. I cannot help myself. ;)

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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Elleth »

Oh, I love the Stoney End harps! They have such a gorgeous sound for their construction. I used to have a "Brittany" lap harp from them once upon a time , and it was a delight.

The 6-hole pattern is common in Irish trad music - the neat thing is that Irish keyless flutes are fingered just like a tinwhistle, so it's a nice smooth transition!
Getting the embrochure right on the Irish flute is a little tricky especially in the upper register, but when you're practiced it lets you take advantage of the whole range without the punchiness you get with the "well just blow harder" upper register of fipple-type flutes w/o a thumbhole. Plus they just look all kinds of fairy-tale romantic. :)

I've never played much w/native flutes, but I love the sound. I used to mimic it on a recorder once upon a time, guesstimating the scale while sitting out in the foggy woods. Sweet memories.
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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Greg »

Yeah, the Irish trad world is pretty consistent. Jillian pipe fingering differs only slightly from pennywhistles and flutes, w high are both six-holed. The pipes have eight (one being a thumb hole for a more in-tune top D, and the other being down at the bottom end because in thAt register, D and E are further apart, leaving enough room for a hole permitting zen, which has a completely unique timbre from anything else in the world, including the rest of the same instrument. We call that note Ghost D.

I'd love to see and hear these harps!

Side note, sweetheart makes some fine flutes and whistles. You're lucky.
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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Elleth »

I've been digging through old drives, and found this picture from a woods jaunt with my old wire-string lap harp:

Image

It's a FolcHarp "Ancient Muse" by a sweet gentleman down South.
http://www.folcharp.com/ancientmuse.html

The folcharp was a much more packable size than my current harp, but it would still be quite the awkward burden if one was planning on crossing the whole of Eriador with it.
With its pieced/glued soundbox and planar pillar and arch, it's still a little out of place for Middle Earth, but not nearly so much as a nylon-strung harp.
That said, a modern nylon neo-Celtic harp is SOOOO much easier to play and naturally sweet to the ear. A complete novice can pick out a tune and sound nice.
Wire harps are particular, and unpracticed fingers can make a fearful din on the things.

The recorder there I've had since at least high school ages ago, and it's come with me everywhere I've traveled. First instrument I fell in love with, and an old friend.

Now I need to actually try recording something. Probably not until the winter respite though.
(Amazing how once you move to a farm, you fall into all the old traditional rhythms of the year whether you'd intended it or no! )
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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Eledhwen »

Just call nylon gut, or strings from the gut of a magical type creature, or made from the silk of a giant spider. Not everything has to be absolutely mundanely historically accurate after all; Giant Spiders, Nazgul, Balrogs, etc are not what we'd call mundanely historically accurate. No reason we can't draw from their presence to explain certain items of our kit.

As for packable...the Scandinavian harp has a sound box like a long elipse or stretched football with the tips lopped off. Unlike other harps, the harmonic curve is not offset, but centered, making the strings run at an angle from pin to soundboard. Witcher makes this kind of harp. I have drafted out plans for one of my own.

Wire string making, as I have cause to know, is very exacting and rather delicate work. I used to draw my own maille wire..so it wasn't that big a step to start drawing wire down for strings...although the work is a LOT more difficult. In my experience, of course. Far easier for forge tapered pins...I detest zither pins...than to draw the wire. I'm not nearly as good as I need to be, or would like to be, but I get some workable wire now and then. I keep at it.

I'm using a froe, wedges, and a box plane to make my own boards for things like lyres and harps, and of course, for making bowstave billets.

That is a very nice harp. Clarseach type, like the Brian Boru and Queen Mary types. Part of that family. :) This kind of harp usually has a lovely voice too.

One thing is certain; to be a Harper style Ranger-Bard, your kit has to revolve around the harp, not the other way around. I have found that my quiver and my blanket roll, combined with a haversack and belt pouches, takes care of the situation nicely. For travel purposes I use, at the moment, a 22 string harp made of pecan wood. Tough and durable, and wire strung. Had to make a good leather case for it, and the lining and padding to go with it. Heavy, aye, but not so heavy I'd leave her.

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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Greg »

The link worked, but regrettably I cannot view the image you posted.

That being said, I am thoroughly enjoying being ally on the wall for this discussion. I'm an instrument junkie of sorts.
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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Elleth »

Oh, it is fun! :)

Eledhwen - I'd love to see a picture of the case you've made! I've had that project on my "to do" pile for ages now, and sadly am no closer to it now than then.
I don't think I can manage the traditional wolf's hide for my Queen Mary, but I confess it's been tempting.

Greg - oh dear! I've been using the old picasa interface for google pictures for ages - ah shoot! It looks like the permissions handling changed on those.

Here we go (I hope:)
FolcharpInWoods.jpg
FolcharpInWoods.jpg (114.92 KiB) Viewed 18570 times
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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Eledhwen »

I'll get a pic of it and some of my harps here soon.

I use commercial leather, since I can't afford any of the better stuff...although I do have a half hide of Elk and a Buffalo hide...I don't want to cut them up for this. I rub a tallow-beeswax into the leather, which darkens it and makes it water resistant. There is padding consisting of half inch thick felt in some places, rather thinner quilting in others. The lining is a linen with leather strip along where the tuning pins are to prevent the string ends from tearing at the linen. I used a triple strap system, much like my quiver uses. The shoulder strap is two inches wide to spread weight on the shoulder, the others rather thinner. It has an interior pocket for the tuning wrench & either the tuner or the 432 tuning fork.

I derived the pattern by wrapping the thing in saran wrap, or plastic wrap that is essentially the same thing. Then I covered it with short strips of duct tape. I then marked the lines I wanted to cut along on the tape, then took the pieces and transferred them to paper, making adjustments to seam allowance and fit as I went. Then junk fabric basted together to check fit. Final pattern adjustment, then make the lining, add the padding, then the shell, which has to be rather larger, obviously. Mine has the harp coming out of the top of the case, which has a soft leather section that tucks in, rolls up, and the flap then closes over it. It will make sense when I take some pics of it.

In retrospect, and when I make my next case I will do this, it could help to use foam to 'block in' areas along the post and harmonic curve, which would give more accurate cutting lines making for less adjustment along the way.

I was going to get commercial cases, but they are Cordura and don't look at all appropriate...and they are *very* expensive. This way is cheaper. I may decide to add some of the furs I have lying about as decoration, but mostly I decorate with beads, feathers, and rarely, quills.

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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Valjuen »

Greg wrote:I'm an instrument junkie of sorts.
Have you ever seen or played an Ocarina? They're one of my favourite instruments.

I was introduced to them by The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (listen to some of the songs here http://zreo.perix.co.uk/#OoT )

I got my first one at the beginning of the year. It was so amazing! It sounded beautiful too.

Funny thing is, someone bumped into me at a Comic Con type thing we have here called "Supanova", and now it's two pieces instead of one.
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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by Greg »

I'm familiar with them. I've dinked around on a few two-octave sweet-potatoes in distant past, but I vastly prefer trad. irish instruments, Chiefly my whistles and pipes for Middle-Earth purposes. Ocarinas are fun, certainly...very unique sound. Some of the more "Ocreanic" instruments that are referred to in Children of Hurin remind me of some of the larger ocarinas in shape (in my head, at least).
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Re: Music, Laments, and...hi-res photos?

Post by SierraStrider »

It occurs to me that context could be a large part of Aragorn's quote. Clearly not all the songs of Middle Earth are sad; the hobbits are quite fond of comic verse, if nothing else.

But based on the darkness of the time period, it may well seem that all the songs are sad. A happy song in a sad hour can seem poignant. A rousing ballad can cause heartache if the glory it speaks of seems gone from the world.

That said, truly sad songs are probably the most beautiful, and well worth indulging in.
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