New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Moderators: caedmon, Greg

User avatar
Kortoso
Haeropada
Posts: 779
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:37 pm
Location: San José, California
Contact:

Re: New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Postby Kortoso » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:33 pm

Elleth wrote:OMG I remember those moccasins! They were *the* rage when I was in middle school for good ol' boy metalheads and SCA geeks alike. Back in the dark ages before lots of historical craftsmen had websites and importation businesses it was the closest thing you could get to a medieval boot. I still have mine and though they've lost a sole and a couple of the lace holes have pulled out they're still in decent enough shape to go woodstromping in.

With all the stuff on the modern market I'd not go that route today however. Even if you must have suede, I think there's better options out there today.
Personally I'd look at Armstreet or Bohemond for off-the-rack.


I've got a new pair of Minne Mocs. Yes, they are still made of bottom-grain suede (yech!) but they are relatively cheap and very comfy.
I'm thinking of kit-bashing them, and taking them apart to replace some of the parts with good buffalo hide.

Some of the other boots have seams that are very close to the ground, meaning that water can get in easily.
Middle Earth Rangers of the Bay Area
Dúnedain Rangers on Youtube
There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild now, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go.
User avatar
Mirimaran
Thangailhir
Posts: 2105
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Postby Mirimaran » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:25 am

Here are the boots I have with the leather soles, very comfortable, actually.

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=GB1165&name=Knee+Length+Medieval+Boots The only drawback is that if you look at how low the lacing goes, you stand a good chance of getting water in your boots if you go through watery areas.

Ken
"Well, what are you waiting for? I am an old man, and have no time for your falter! Come at me, if you will, for I do not sing songs of dastards!"
User avatar
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Re: New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Postby Elleth » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:01 pm

Well look at that... "tall boots of supple leather" found for a man on foot in the (later) medieval era: the "Worcester Pilgrim" -

worcester-pilgrim-boots.jpg
worcester-pilgrim-boots.jpg (27.37 KiB) Viewed 1803 times

worcester-pilgrim-image-4-boot-after-treatment-e1410966092889-692x350.jpg
worcester-pilgrim-image-4-boot-after-treatment-e1410966092889-692x350.jpg (41.88 KiB) Viewed 1803 times

https://pilgrimagemedievalireland.com/t ... -clothing/
http://www.yorkarchaeology.co.uk/case-s ... r-pilgrim/

How cool! :)
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
Udwin
Amrod Rhandir
Posts: 543
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:00 pm
Location: banks of the great River, Kaintuckiana

Re: New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Postby Udwin » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:31 pm

Very cool indeed! Too bad he was discovered after JRRT's death (so can't be an influence)... but cool to see nonetheless!
User avatar
Kortoso
Haeropada
Posts: 779
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:37 pm
Location: San José, California
Contact:

Re: New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Postby Kortoso » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:45 pm

Great find! Thanks for sharing!
Middle Earth Rangers of the Bay Area
Dúnedain Rangers on Youtube
There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild now, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go.
User avatar
caedmon
Balku'npâ
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:30 am
Location: Palmer Alaska

Re: New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Postby caedmon » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:49 pm

Elleth wrote:Well look at that... "tall boots of supple leather" found for a man on foot in the (later) medieval era: the "Worcester Pilgrim" -




Wow Elleth, that's awesome. I'd never heard about this one. Here are some other bit's I've found about it. The reconstruction of the Rand isn't something I've seen on a medieval shoe before...



Bootpattern.jpg
Bootpattern.jpg (67.04 KiB) Viewed 1798 times


Bootpattern_a.jpg
Bootpattern_a.jpg (86.02 KiB) Viewed 1798 times


woosterpilgrim.jpg
woosterpilgrim.jpg (140.95 KiB) Viewed 1798 times
-Jack Horner

----------------------------
Impression: Boater Wesman ( Balku'npâ Adúnerama ) bronze founder living in Archet, Breelander of mixed dúnedain descent. c. 3017
User avatar
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Re: New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Postby Elleth » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:38 pm

caedmon - how cool! So.. the rand sits between the sold and the upper as a sort of proto-welt? Is that right? I wonder what those two little insets were: a correction to a fitting issue? Or part of the design from the start?

Udwin - certainly you're right, but the Professor also had the advantage of living amongst tons of original art and effigial monuments: I wonder if he happened to see something that read as "boot" to him that all this time looking at illuminations we thought were woolen hose?
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
Udwin
Amrod Rhandir
Posts: 543
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:00 pm
Location: banks of the great River, Kaintuckiana

Re: New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Postby Udwin » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:26 pm

Excellent point, of course! Alas that we in America are Not surrounded by such settings. Reminds me of Eddie Izzard's bit, "I grew up in Europe...where the History comes from! You tear your history down: 'It's 30 years old, smash it to the floor, put a car park there!' I went to Miami and they told me that they had redecorated a house to how it looked Over Fifty Years Ago! And people said, 'Nooo, that's impossible! Surely not, No! Nobody was alive then!'"
Personae: Aistan son of Ansteig, common Beorning of Wilderland; Tungo Boffin, Eastfarthing Bounder, 3018 TA
User avatar
caedmon
Balku'npâ
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:30 am
Location: Palmer Alaska

Re: New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Postby caedmon » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:38 pm

Elleth wrote:So.. the rand sits between the sold and the upper as a sort of proto-welt? Is that right?


That's what it looks like. I'm a bit confused about the terminology as I thought the rand was a toe-cap.

The other thing I wonder is if that's not actually just a second sole added as a repair?

Ok, I pulled out 'Shoes & Pattens', here's what it has to say (pg. 49):


Soles and rand

The sole was normally made of thick cattle leather, placed flesh side up with a loosely-stitched edge/flesh margin around the edge. The soles varied from one to two pieces. Two piece soles, which were common on large shoes, such as 14th-century 'poulaines' and may have facilitated repairs, consisted of a heel and forepart, and were joined at the waist with an edge/flesh butt seam.

The Rand was a narrow strip of leather, triangular in section, sewn into the lasting-margin between the sole and the upper to make the join more water tight. It began by being cut in several short segments, c.4 mm in width, with stitches 1 mm across and at 7 mm centres, and sometimes seems not to have been used around the entire shoe: one of the 13th-century drawstring bootsh for example, which was recovered absolutely intact from tyhe excavations, has rands at the waist on each side but not around the toe and heel. Later, the rand evolved into longer continuos strips and generally was inserted around the entire circumference of the lasting-margin.


So this looks like fairly standard actually late 15th c. construction.

Elleth wrote:I wonder what those two little insets were: a correction to a fitting issue? Or part of the design from the start?


Well, looking through S&P I see a lot of them. Seems a bit odd to me.
-Jack Horner

----------------------------
Impression: Boater Wesman ( Balku'npâ Adúnerama ) bronze founder living in Archet, Breelander of mixed dúnedain descent. c. 3017
User avatar
Greg
Urush bithî 'nKi ya-nam bawâb
Posts: 3611
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:50 pm
Location: Up the Greenway; Southern Indiana

Re: New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Postby Greg » Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:54 am

My understanding was that a rand was a triangular spacer to keep stitching from spreading, whereas a welt is in the same position, between upper and sole, and extends beyond the edge of the inner sole to allow a clump sole to be atttached.

That shoe's construction below the angle is strikingly similar to mine...rather pleasing to see.
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
User avatar
Kortoso
Haeropada
Posts: 779
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:37 pm
Location: San José, California
Contact:

Re: New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Postby Kortoso » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:17 pm

Udwin wrote:Excellent point, of course! Alas that we in America are Not surrounded by such settings. Reminds me of Eddie Izzard's bit, "I grew up in Europe...where the History comes from! You tear your history down: 'It's 30 years old, smash it to the floor, put a car park there!' I went to Miami and they told me that they had redecorated a house to how it looked Over Fifty Years Ago! And people said, 'Nooo, that's impossible! Surely not, No! Nobody was alive then!'"

The way I've heard it: In Europe 100 years is a short time and 100 miles is a long distance. In the US 100 years is a long time and 100 miles is a short distance. :mrgreen:
Middle Earth Rangers of the Bay Area
Dúnedain Rangers on Youtube
There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild now, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go.
User avatar
Kortoso
Haeropada
Posts: 779
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:37 pm
Location: San José, California
Contact:

Re: New Research - Boots for Ranger Impressions

Postby Kortoso » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:18 pm

From Marc Carlson I have this:
Rand (also spelled Rann, Rahn. Also called French Seat, Rand Welt)
The historical shoemaking term rand and its various spellings, are first used in the very late 16th century to describe a type of thin welt that’s been rolled under the insole and braced with thread. This technique almost certainly derived from leather covered cork or wooden soles on certain forms of pattens, ecclesiastical footwear, and winter shoes. The term will therefore be used earlier than it is known to have been used elsewhere when describing the construction of those items. The term Rand is used historically to describe several different sorts of welt, and in the archeological jargon to refer to welts in turn-shoes, although this particular usage has no basis in either shoemaking or history.

http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/RESEARCH/GLOSSARY/bdefr.htm
Middle Earth Rangers of the Bay Area
Dúnedain Rangers on Youtube
There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild now, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go.

Return to “Dunedain Culture”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest