Footies or no Footies?

[Manveruon]

Over the next several months it is my goal to upgrade a good deal of my kit, and one my my highest priorities is figuring out my leg coverings a little better. Currently, I am using a pair of heavily modified, 100% cotton, jersey knit brown exercise pants. They look... well... okay enough (10-foot-rule-okay, at least), but they don't insulate well at all (as I learned the hard way this summer), and they don't fit amazingly well in any case.

I plan on making a pair of period chausses for use in the SCA, but I think I'll want something a little more covering for ranger stuff, and I was inspired quite a bit by this gentleman on DeviantArt who made a pair of excellent looking hose for Link from the Legend of Zelda by modifying a late-medieval style of joined hose to fit his purposes:
http://manveruon.deviantart.com/art/Leg ... -567687425

I love how his look, and I think I'm going to aim for something very similar, but the part I'm having difficulty deciding is what to do about the feet. Period hosen, from way back when they were two separate pieces, all the way up through later periods when they joined at the top, tended to have attached feet, it seems. Even Viking trousers appear to have often had attached feet. I suppose this was because the sock as we think of it hadn't been invented yet, so they were the only barrier between one's foot and the inside of one's shoe.

That said, for our purposes, I am not sure having an attached foot is the best way to go, so I wanted to put it out there to the board and see what all of you think. Do any of you use hose with attached feet? If so, do you like them? Do you prefer your hose/trousers without feet altogether? Or do you have another preferred method, like built-in "stirrup" bottoms?

At the moment, I think I'm leaning towards the stirrup bottoms, based on Urthgard's recommendation, but I'm curious to hear other viewpoints.

[Odigan]

I vote footies, as my experience with them in the field has proven them eminently comfortable and practical.

Something you may not have considered but should be obvious when in use, that with attached feet there is no gap for debris or insects to get in as with a separate sock. The biggest downside is patterning/tailoring them to fit properly, and for this you'll need to make some test pieces. I'll post my patterns when I get a chance, but they're modified from The Medieval Tailor's Assistant.

[Taurinor]

I use chausses with attached feet, and I like them. Like Odigan said, fitting them is important. Cutting the cloth on the bias (diagonal to the grain) gives you a little more room for error, because the cloth has more stretch that way. More so with wool than linen, which is why I prefer wool for hose.

One thing to consider with the footies is the seam placement. A lot of patterns I've seen for SCA clothing and the like have seems meeting under the foot. At best, they're going to get a lot of wear quickly; at worst, they might hurt your feet, so I went with a less historical foot. I posted a quick write up of it here - http://ranger.budgetauthenticity.org/fo ... 023#p30023

[Ursus]

Looking at it I think they look neat and are a cool option if you aren't trekking in them. If you are trekking then my concern would be that if your feet get wet from sweat or water you would then have take your pants entirely off to dry them. Personally I wouldn't want to get caught with my pants down on the trail

[Greg]

That's a good point...wetting feet on stream crossings is a solid concern, and a (potentially) frequent occurrence. Most trails going anywhere worth seeing will have a few (if not dozens...I like following rivers/streams and often seek out paths that do so which, inadvertently, will cross dozens of times.) I was actually planning on making some footie-chausses, but now I'm not so sure.

[Elleth]

On a related matter, and speaking to the same problem of closing up the ankles: has anyone used winningas on the trail?
I'm tentatively thinking of pairing some with bohemond high shoes, but have never experienced either.

[Udwin]

I use wool winningas to keep snow out of the tops of my felt boots in winter. By doing a pass under my instep, it also helps keep debris/snow out of the ankles of my leather shoes as well. The integrated ties at the top work well enough, but I suppose metal clips (I know Saxons had them) might ensure against unraveling better?

[Ursus]

On a related matter, and speaking to the same problem of closing up the ankles: has anyone used winningas on the trail?
I'm tentatively thinking of pairing some with bohemond high shoes, but have never experienced either.

One of my students who just began ranging with me uses winningas that are made from oilcloth and seems to like them. On the topic of Bohemond, I own a pair of his Medieval High Shoe's and they are a steal for the money.

[Ursus]

That's a good point...wetting feet on stream crossings is a solid concern, and a (potentially) frequent occurrence. Most trails going anywhere worth seeing will have a few (if not dozens...I like following rivers/streams and often seek out paths that do so which, inadvertently, will cross dozens of times.) I was actually planning on making some footie-chausses, but now I'm not so sure.

I'm wondering if the pattern couldn't be altered to make the foot section removable in some way. Ties or lacing of some kind perhaps?

[Taurinor]

That's a good point...wetting feet on stream crossings is a solid concern, and a (potentially) frequent occurrence. Most trails going anywhere worth seeing will have a few (if not dozens...I like following rivers/streams and often seek out paths that do so which, inadvertently, will cross dozens of times.) I was actually planning on making some footie-chausses, but now I'm not so sure.

I wear my chausses with long braies, so my braies are really the "pants" part of the set up. I also carry some heavy wool 18th century style stockings. I don't do a lot of stream crossings, but my chausses do get wet from sweat, so when I make camp, I take off the chausses and sleep in the stockings so the chausses can dry overnight. I also find changing my "socks" before bedding down for the night can make a big difference in my comfort level, and the stockings pack down relatively small.

[Odigan]

Firstly, the pattern I developed, as promised.
The basic layout is from the Medieval Tailor's Assistant, but I used duct-tape dummies of my feet and ankles to get the proper fit. I sewed up a couple test pieces from scrap fabric and adjusted it before finally cutting the linen.

Secondly, I think ya'll are overthinking things.

This pattern does indeed have the seams meeting under the foot. I agree, this intuitively seems wrong. However, this is how they were made. It is neither uncomfortable nor does it wear out faster so far as I can tell. If anything, it puts the seams of the chausses exactly where the seams of the turnsole are not, thereby making things more comfortable. I've not even noticed the seam and I wear them against my skin.

Again, this is how they did things historically. If they had issues with them getting wet, they obviously didn't concern themselves overly with it. It's frankly nigh impossible that your feet aren't going to get wet if you're wearing period footwear anyway, stream crossing or no... so when you wear these you'll understand why they did. In linen in the summer, if they're wet it matters little, and in winter with wool, again, you're gonna be fine.

On my last trek with Greg I was remarking how I was amazed that my feet were completely dry, despite the rain and generally humid weather. When I got back to the car and stripped down I found that actually, my turnsoles were soaked, I just didn't notice because linen is awesome.

[Manveruon]

Very interesting all around, thanks guys!

So I have to admit, I'm surprised at just how many people recommend hosen with feet attached. I really expected there to be less support for that style. Very interesting indeed.

What I'm thinking now is that I will definitely be making a pair of period chausses for SCA use soon, and I will use those as something of a testing ground. My biggest concern at the moment is that if the feet aren't fitted EXTREMELY well, it could play havoc with my feet. Having recently walked a long, long distance in boots with a sock that had started to loosen and slip down early in the day, I have the blisters to teach me not to let that happen again. Theoretically, if the hosen are extremely well fitted, and they don't start to loosen and slide down into my boots over the course of a trek, it should be fine... but it's still a concern of mine.

My only other major concern is with regard to crossing streams, etc. and generally getting my feet wet. I do want the ability to take off my boots and wade across a shallow stream if necessary, and I'd prefer to not have to completely change my hosen every time I do that.

I understand the point about serving as an extra barrier, so various nasty gunk and creepy-crawlies don't get between your skin and your boot, but honestly, I haven't had much trouble with this, myself. I think I'm probably still leaning towards the "stirrup" set-up that Urthgard showed in his kit break-down post, mainly because the legs of the hosen could still be rolled up if necessary, but we'll see how the chausses work out and go from there, I think.

[Odigan]

It certainly all comes down to personal preference, and of course we all have different visions as to how we want to portray Rangers and their kit. The variety we all have here is what keeps things interesting.

As to stream crossings and the doffing of chausses...
I guess I just see them as really tall socks. That are tied to you.

One way to look at this is as a tedious inconvenience in removing them (I do not find it so).
Another is to use the experience to take a moment to stop and prepare for that crossing. I find that so many things in modern life drive us to constantly rush through things and become antagonistic with anything we feel is slowing us down. I like to embrace simple acts that counter that madness. Whether that's shaving with an actual razor, having to wind a clock, or untie my chausses.

[Greg]

Side note: I LOVE winding clocks.

[Manveruon]

It certainly all comes down to personal preference, and of course we all have different visions as to how we want to portray Rangers and their kit. The variety we all have here is what keeps things interesting.

As to stream crossings and the doffing of chausses...
I guess I just see them as really tall socks. That are tied to you.

One way to look at this is as a tedious inconvenience in removing them (I do not find it so).
Another is to use the experience to take a moment to stop and prepare for that crossing. I find that so many things in modern life drive us to constantly rush through things and become antagonistic with anything we feel is slowing us down. I like to embrace simple acts that counter that madness. Whether that's shaving with an actual razor, having to wind a clock, or untie my chausses.

Oh, I completely agree, 100%. Taking off a pair of chausses to cross a stream, etc. really isn't a very big deal in the grand scheme of things. However, I am looking to make a pair of trousers, or joined hose, rather than individual chausses, and I know from experience (mostly at the renaissance faire, but also this past summer during my trek) that spending the time to take trousers completely off, while they're mostly caught under tunics, belts, etc. can be something of a monumental task. This is why I'm still not absolutely sold on attached feet just yet. But I'm going to try out regular chausses here soon, as part of my SCA garb, to see how I like them, and to see if the feet are something I'm going to want on the trail. Then I'll start on the trousers for ranger-wear.