WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
- Elleth
- êphal ki-*raznahê
- Posts: 2933
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
- Location: in the Angle; New England
WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
Splitting this off owl's topic since I don't want to take it completely over. Normally I don't like slavishly copying WETA stuff, but since this was a quick / easy project to do when I'm brain-dead after work and not good for anything else - and there's apparently a number of people out there who want them - I thought I'd go ahead and duplicate a couple of the film buckles. I'm not bothering with the Boromir Shield Strap / Faramir Sword Belt buckle since at least two folks are already on that one - I'm just doing the Faramir Quiver Buckle and the Boromir Surcoat Buckle (what I've come to call the "Gondor Kit Buckle" since it kept showing up on all sorts of things)
I'm dumping my research / progress notes into this thread so those that come later have less work to do.
That little "kit buckle" is also over the place - Aragorn's quiver, Faramir's cloak and Boromir's surcote we already knew: it's also on Pippin's little belt bag in Minas Tirith. Probably elsewhere, but that's all I've found so far.
I've never tried to actually copy something from photos before, and the lack of solid face-on photos makes getting angles right a challenge. Every photo is foreshortened in some tiny way or another, meaning none of the angles are *quite* right.
Nonetheless, a few are pretty close: I'm going to be using the right two composites from Boromir's surcoat as a base for the little buckle:
I think the Aragorn quiver version is slightly different - unless I'm looking at it wrong, it seems to use a flatter / less arched bow. I could make both, I suppose.
Anyhow - once I actually started combing through references looking for the things, I was a little surprised just how common both are - especially the "Faramir Quiver Buckle" Virtually every Gondor character wearing a weapon uses that buckle somewhere. Background Rangers of Ithilien? Quiver, naturally. Second Age army of Elendil? Sword belt. Third Age defenders of Minas Tirith? Sword belt. Pippin? Fountain Guards? Sword belt. All of 'em. Very few good reference photos though so far.
.. and buried in "Weapons and Warefare" is one tiny grainy picture of the back of that buckle, finally. Looks like they use two hefty rivets for it:
I'm dumping my research / progress notes into this thread so those that come later have less work to do.
That little "kit buckle" is also over the place - Aragorn's quiver, Faramir's cloak and Boromir's surcote we already knew: it's also on Pippin's little belt bag in Minas Tirith. Probably elsewhere, but that's all I've found so far.
I've never tried to actually copy something from photos before, and the lack of solid face-on photos makes getting angles right a challenge. Every photo is foreshortened in some tiny way or another, meaning none of the angles are *quite* right.
Nonetheless, a few are pretty close: I'm going to be using the right two composites from Boromir's surcoat as a base for the little buckle:
I think the Aragorn quiver version is slightly different - unless I'm looking at it wrong, it seems to use a flatter / less arched bow. I could make both, I suppose.
Anyhow - once I actually started combing through references looking for the things, I was a little surprised just how common both are - especially the "Faramir Quiver Buckle" Virtually every Gondor character wearing a weapon uses that buckle somewhere. Background Rangers of Ithilien? Quiver, naturally. Second Age army of Elendil? Sword belt. Third Age defenders of Minas Tirith? Sword belt. Pippin? Fountain Guards? Sword belt. All of 'em. Very few good reference photos though so far.
.. and buried in "Weapons and Warefare" is one tiny grainy picture of the back of that buckle, finally. Looks like they use two hefty rivets for it:
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
- Kortoso
- Haeropada
- Posts: 822
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:37 pm
- Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
- Contact:
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
Very interesting discovery! In-universe, what would lead to that design being used by Gondorians, Halflings and Dunedain alike?Elleth wrote:That little "kit buckle" is also over the place - Aragorn's quiver, Faramir's cloak and Boromir's surcote we already knew: it's also on Pippin's little belt bag in Minas Tirith. Probably elsewhere, but that's all I've found so far.
There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild now, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go.
- Elleth
- êphal ki-*raznahê
- Posts: 2933
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
- Location: in the Angle; New England
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
Oh - "un Universe" they're still all Gondorian artifacts - Pippin's pouch was given to him at the same time as the rest of his gear in Minas Tirith after he swears fealty to Denethor.
There's no discussion of how Aragorn's quiver came to have Gondorian buckles on it, but as Thorongil he served in Gondor years previously, so it's certainly possible he'd still have some minor durable bits of gear from the experience.
There's no discussion of how Aragorn's quiver came to have Gondorian buckles on it, but as Thorongil he served in Gondor years previously, so it's certainly possible he'd still have some minor durable bits of gear from the experience.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
The Gondorian and Dúnedain cultures both have a common ancestor in Númenor, so it makes sense they would be closely related in design and style. And of the Halflings, only Pippin wears this style of buckle on his clothing and gear, which has been provided by the Gondorian Citadel Guard.Kortoso wrote:Very interesting discovery! In-universe, what would lead to that design being used by Gondorians, Halflings and Dunedain alike?
EDIT: Seems I was too slow in writing this!
"Short cuts make long delays"
- Elleth
- êphal ki-*raznahê
- Posts: 2933
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
- Location: in the Angle; New England
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
ooookay - progress! The models for the smaller "kit buckle" is complete, with both a "Faramir/Boromor" clasp variant and a flatter-bowed "Aragorn Quiver" variant. Both use posts-with-holes for attachment. My original models also had a fitted back plate, but that would add around $20 per piece, and I think most folk would rather cut their own out of sheet stock rather than pay that big a premium.
I'm about to order one of each in steel to give them a try. Anyone who wants one but doesn't want to wait on a review... no promises.
I'm not going to make them public until I verify they're good.
(removed outdated links)
Finally, I could really use some sanity checking on scale.
I based the sizing of both buckles on these pictures:
... assuming they used the same base, and that the strap of Aragorn's quiver was 1" wide.
That makes the "shield" portion 1.22" wide (note how it overhangs the straps a touch) and the bows 1.97" (flat/Aragorn) and 1.72" (bowed/Boromir) at their widest points. I'm concerned that may be a skosh to big, but I'm not positive. What do you guys think?
EDIT.... yeah, if we assume Boromir's swordbelt is 2" across, I think my buckles are a bit oversized. Updates soon.
I'm about to order one of each in steel to give them a try. Anyone who wants one but doesn't want to wait on a review... no promises.
I'm not going to make them public until I verify they're good.
(removed outdated links)
Finally, I could really use some sanity checking on scale.
I based the sizing of both buckles on these pictures:
... assuming they used the same base, and that the strap of Aragorn's quiver was 1" wide.
That makes the "shield" portion 1.22" wide (note how it overhangs the straps a touch) and the bows 1.97" (flat/Aragorn) and 1.72" (bowed/Boromir) at their widest points. I'm concerned that may be a skosh to big, but I'm not positive. What do you guys think?
EDIT.... yeah, if we assume Boromir's swordbelt is 2" across, I think my buckles are a bit oversized. Updates soon.
Last edited by Elleth on Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
- Elleth
- êphal ki-*raznahê
- Posts: 2933
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
- Location: in the Angle; New England
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
Here's an attempted re-scale. New scale shown against a 1", 3/4", and 2" strap. Old scale are the larger size:
Pretty sure this is about right - any thoughts?
I certainly like this size better for the clasps - they feel better for the Faramir cloak closure at this size as well.
Assuming all the buckles use the same base however, It would mean Aragorn's quiver strap is a skosh under an inch I think - maybe 7/8 or so? It would still be a wider strap 3/4" still of course. (Actually I assume it was made to metric dimensions by WETA, but since I think in inches... :p )
Alternately, it could be the "Aragorn" buckle is just bigger all around than the "Boromor/Faramir" clasps.
Assuming this is correct I'll need to tweak a couple things to keep the pin size (and pin hole size) usable and the model printable, but that's fairly quick.
The big "Faramir Quiver" buckle won't be much longer either. At least the scale there is easier to make out.
Pretty sure this is about right - any thoughts?
I certainly like this size better for the clasps - they feel better for the Faramir cloak closure at this size as well.
Assuming all the buckles use the same base however, It would mean Aragorn's quiver strap is a skosh under an inch I think - maybe 7/8 or so? It would still be a wider strap 3/4" still of course. (Actually I assume it was made to metric dimensions by WETA, but since I think in inches... :p )
Alternately, it could be the "Aragorn" buckle is just bigger all around than the "Boromor/Faramir" clasps.
Assuming this is correct I'll need to tweak a couple things to keep the pin size (and pin hole size) usable and the model printable, but that's fairly quick.
The big "Faramir Quiver" buckle won't be much longer either. At least the scale there is easier to make out.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
- Elleth
- êphal ki-*raznahê
- Posts: 2933
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
- Location: in the Angle; New England
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
Okay, the small buckles are finalized. Manv helped me with scaling, and I think we've got it.
There are two versions - one with a rounder bow like Boromir's surcote clasp, and one with a flatter bow like Aragorn's quiver buckle. Each is available in steel (several color options), as well as cast metals (bronze/brass/silver). The cast versions will have a much cleaner surface, but are more expensive. I've also made the plate portion available on its own.
Steel versions of each have (nominal) 1/16 holes to run wire or thread through for fastening in place: cast versions can be mushroomed out just like historical buckles. Cast ones also have the option of a backplate, which is too thin to print in steel (not that I think it's cost effective to order)
I've ordered one of each type in steel, and will post pictures when they're in hand. If you don't want to wait:
Round Bow / Faramir Cloak Clasp, Steel
Round Bow / Faramir Cloak Clasp, Cast
Round Bow / Faramir Cloak Clasp, Cast with backplate
(removed Aragorn "flat bow" pieces until the updated stud positioning verified good)
"Kit Buckle" plate, Steel
"Kit Buckle" plate, Cast
"Kit Buckle" plate, Cast, with backplate
The larger "Faramir Quiver Buckle" and associated plate (used on "Boromir's Bag") will be up in a few more days I think.
There are two versions - one with a rounder bow like Boromir's surcote clasp, and one with a flatter bow like Aragorn's quiver buckle. Each is available in steel (several color options), as well as cast metals (bronze/brass/silver). The cast versions will have a much cleaner surface, but are more expensive. I've also made the plate portion available on its own.
Steel versions of each have (nominal) 1/16 holes to run wire or thread through for fastening in place: cast versions can be mushroomed out just like historical buckles. Cast ones also have the option of a backplate, which is too thin to print in steel (not that I think it's cost effective to order)
I've ordered one of each type in steel, and will post pictures when they're in hand. If you don't want to wait:
Round Bow / Faramir Cloak Clasp, Steel
Round Bow / Faramir Cloak Clasp, Cast
Round Bow / Faramir Cloak Clasp, Cast with backplate
(removed Aragorn "flat bow" pieces until the updated stud positioning verified good)
"Kit Buckle" plate, Steel
"Kit Buckle" plate, Cast
"Kit Buckle" plate, Cast, with backplate
The larger "Faramir Quiver Buckle" and associated plate (used on "Boromir's Bag") will be up in a few more days I think.
Last edited by Elleth on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
- Elleth
- êphal ki-*raznahê
- Posts: 2933
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
- Location: in the Angle; New England
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
And the large "Faramir Quiver" buckle is now finalized. Due to printing limitations on Shapeway's side, it's only available in steel, and without a backplate:
Faramir Quiver Buckle
The baseplate is easier to print, and available in steel or cast metals (the latter with an optional backplate, but again I don't think it's worth the premium):
Faramir Quiver Buckle Baseplate, Steel
Faramir Quiver Buckle Baseplate, Cast
Faramir Quiver Buckle Baseplate, Cast w/backplate
I've ordered the buckle in steel, and will show off a picture once it arrives.
Assuming everything looks good, all make all the above links public at that time.
Finally done!
Now to return to all the *other* things I've promised people for ages.
So much to do - onward!!
Faramir Quiver Buckle
The baseplate is easier to print, and available in steel or cast metals (the latter with an optional backplate, but again I don't think it's worth the premium):
Faramir Quiver Buckle Baseplate, Steel
Faramir Quiver Buckle Baseplate, Cast
Faramir Quiver Buckle Baseplate, Cast w/backplate
I've ordered the buckle in steel, and will show off a picture once it arrives.
Assuming everything looks good, all make all the above links public at that time.
Finally done!
Now to return to all the *other* things I've promised people for ages.
So much to do - onward!!
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
You're a hero! Thank you!
- Elleth
- êphal ki-*raznahê
- Posts: 2933
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
- Location: in the Angle; New England
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
wooo!
All three buckles just shipped! I should be able to show them off by Monday or so.
Cautiously optimistic.
All three buckles just shipped! I should be able to show them off by Monday or so.
Cautiously optimistic.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
Mine says it will be here Wednesday. I'm excited.
- Greg
- Urush bithî 'nKi ya-nam bawâb
- Posts: 4496
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:50 pm
- Location: Eriador; Central Indiana
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
Fantastic reproduction, Elleth.
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
- Elleth
- êphal ki-*raznahê
- Posts: 2933
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
- Location: in the Angle; New England
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
thansk Greg.
O. M. G.
I think you're gonna be REALLY happy Owl.
here's a teaser: Every time in the past when I've done Shapeways work, there's always been some little bit I wished I'd gotten better.
Not these. I think. The lines look *perfect*
That said, I'm weiging tweaking the attatchment studs just a but, by bringing them in towards the centerline a hair - that would leave more meat on the outside of the belt for strength, at the potential cost of a little stability. I don't think it would be a risk for something so light as a quiver, but if one was going to hang a whole lot of weight off the strap the little extra support might be good.
Thoughts?
Here I made the holes in the leather a bit inboard of the studs, and stretched the belt into position:
More pictures tonight.
O. M. G.
I think you're gonna be REALLY happy Owl.
here's a teaser: Every time in the past when I've done Shapeways work, there's always been some little bit I wished I'd gotten better.
Not these. I think. The lines look *perfect*
That said, I'm weiging tweaking the attatchment studs just a but, by bringing them in towards the centerline a hair - that would leave more meat on the outside of the belt for strength, at the potential cost of a little stability. I don't think it would be a risk for something so light as a quiver, but if one was going to hang a whole lot of weight off the strap the little extra support might be good.
Thoughts?
Here I made the holes in the leather a bit inboard of the studs, and stretched the belt into position:
More pictures tonight.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
- Iodo
- Thangailhir
- Posts: 2112
- Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
- Location: North west england UK
- Contact:
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
Very impressive
I think your right that the studs may be a little close to the edge of the leather though
I think your right that the studs may be a little close to the edge of the leather though
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
- Peter Remling
- Athel Dunedain
- Posts: 3735
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:20 am
Re: WETA Gondor Buckles - Boromir, Faramir, etc.
For the inch wide, looks like the center of the studs is a 1/4" in. You also have the cover, between the two I think there is more than enough strength for typical weight loads. Just make sure you keep the leather oiled near the buckle so it doesn't dry out.
If someone is still concerned, don't punch the holes. Use an awl to make the initial hole then widen it by forcing it wider. This will compress the leather giving you the extra meat/strength that you didn't remove. The cover will conceal any bunching up of the sides of the holes.
They look great !
The 3/4" strap buckle sure be more than ample for smaller items.
If someone is still concerned, don't punch the holes. Use an awl to make the initial hole then widen it by forcing it wider. This will compress the leather giving you the extra meat/strength that you didn't remove. The cover will conceal any bunching up of the sides of the holes.
They look great !
The 3/4" strap buckle sure be more than ample for smaller items.