Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
- SierraStrider
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Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
I've always heard about "Dakota Fireholes" in the context of bushcraft, but never really tried one. Being determined to spend the night out in period kit soon, I decided that any experiments that could improve the effectiveness of a fire would be good to try.
For those who might not be familiar, the concept behind a Dakota Firehole is that you dig two holes adjacent to one another, then dig a tunnel connecting them beneath the surface. A fire is then built in one of the holes. A fire built in this way burns better than one built in the open on the surface since the walls of the hole reflect the heat back in on the fire, and convection draws air down through the empty hole to "supercharge" the other hole.
Doing this with period kit could be challenging. Digging the holes requires a proper tool, and while one could dig with a sturdy knife it wouldn't be good for it. A small trowel or hori-type knife would certainly be a plausible thing to find in Middle-earth, but would a traveler carry such a thing?
Logistics of construction aside, the hole worked...pretty amazingly in practice. I've heard some people advocate for filling the 'fire' side of the pit with fuel completely before ignition, then lighting it from the top. The idea is that having the flame at the top of the fuel stack will reduce smoke by fully combusting it as it exits, while the draft of convection will draw the fire downward through the fuel. This seems like a sound enough concept for those wary of foes in the wilderness...but I was just practicing so I built my fire in a more usual way, igniting at the bottom and adding fuel above.
The fire did seem to burn far more reliably than one built in the open. When fuel was added, the flames were quick to light and burned strongly until the fuel was reduced to coals. It was at this point that the real benefit for ranger trekking came to light, by my estimation.
With nothing but hot coals in the hole, being supercharged by convection and well-contained, I was put in mind of the Japanese kotatsu table. These days they're electric, but in the past they were heated by a small firebox filled with charcoal set into the floor. I moved forward and sat over the hole, with my cloak tented around my torso.
Oh. My. It was warm in a way that seemed almost magical. What could be warmer than a campfire inside your cloak? With my legs on either side of the hole, the plume of heat was coming up right between my femoral arteries. My feet, quite damp and chilled from dewy grass, suddenly felt very warm despite not even being under the cloak as the hot blood suffused my toes. My chest and arms were likewise warmed, while the cloak kept the plume of hot exhaust from stinging my eyes or throat, as I let it vent out the side. For anyone who tries this, do remember that carbon monoxide is a byproduct of which to be wary, though the ready supply of oxygen in this situation means that more complete combustion will likely minimize that hazard.
Pros:
Astoundingly comfortable when burned to coals and used in conjunction with a cloak
Much more discreet than a fire in the open
More complete combustion of fuel
Easy to conceal once ready to move on (from orcs or Leave-No-Trace sticklers)
Probably QUITE good to cook over
Cons:
Difficult to construct without dedicated tools
Until burnt down and ready to sit over, it seems less warm to sit beside.
Heat output diminished rather quickly as the coals burned away
If one had the time to build up a lot of coals in the hole and/or a supply of charcoal (Like an old campfire) I suspect that this or a similar method could be used to keep warm for a longer period.
For those who might not be familiar, the concept behind a Dakota Firehole is that you dig two holes adjacent to one another, then dig a tunnel connecting them beneath the surface. A fire is then built in one of the holes. A fire built in this way burns better than one built in the open on the surface since the walls of the hole reflect the heat back in on the fire, and convection draws air down through the empty hole to "supercharge" the other hole.
Doing this with period kit could be challenging. Digging the holes requires a proper tool, and while one could dig with a sturdy knife it wouldn't be good for it. A small trowel or hori-type knife would certainly be a plausible thing to find in Middle-earth, but would a traveler carry such a thing?
Logistics of construction aside, the hole worked...pretty amazingly in practice. I've heard some people advocate for filling the 'fire' side of the pit with fuel completely before ignition, then lighting it from the top. The idea is that having the flame at the top of the fuel stack will reduce smoke by fully combusting it as it exits, while the draft of convection will draw the fire downward through the fuel. This seems like a sound enough concept for those wary of foes in the wilderness...but I was just practicing so I built my fire in a more usual way, igniting at the bottom and adding fuel above.
The fire did seem to burn far more reliably than one built in the open. When fuel was added, the flames were quick to light and burned strongly until the fuel was reduced to coals. It was at this point that the real benefit for ranger trekking came to light, by my estimation.
With nothing but hot coals in the hole, being supercharged by convection and well-contained, I was put in mind of the Japanese kotatsu table. These days they're electric, but in the past they were heated by a small firebox filled with charcoal set into the floor. I moved forward and sat over the hole, with my cloak tented around my torso.
Oh. My. It was warm in a way that seemed almost magical. What could be warmer than a campfire inside your cloak? With my legs on either side of the hole, the plume of heat was coming up right between my femoral arteries. My feet, quite damp and chilled from dewy grass, suddenly felt very warm despite not even being under the cloak as the hot blood suffused my toes. My chest and arms were likewise warmed, while the cloak kept the plume of hot exhaust from stinging my eyes or throat, as I let it vent out the side. For anyone who tries this, do remember that carbon monoxide is a byproduct of which to be wary, though the ready supply of oxygen in this situation means that more complete combustion will likely minimize that hazard.
Pros:
Astoundingly comfortable when burned to coals and used in conjunction with a cloak
Much more discreet than a fire in the open
More complete combustion of fuel
Easy to conceal once ready to move on (from orcs or Leave-No-Trace sticklers)
Probably QUITE good to cook over
Cons:
Difficult to construct without dedicated tools
Until burnt down and ready to sit over, it seems less warm to sit beside.
Heat output diminished rather quickly as the coals burned away
If one had the time to build up a lot of coals in the hole and/or a supply of charcoal (Like an old campfire) I suspect that this or a similar method could be used to keep warm for a longer period.
- Iodo
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
I'd never heard of this before and it sounds like such a good idea that I want to try it, I'm guessing you used a modern camp shovel to dig the holes and tunnel, maybe a period equivalent exists somewhere?
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
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- SierraStrider
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
A small hand tool for digging has to be one of the oldest types of tool, right? I don't know what construction techniques might've been used in medieval Europe, let alone Middle-earth, but the hori knife I used to dig this could almost pass for a tool of that vintage. One with a less obviously modern blade could likely be had without much trouble, too.Iodo wrote:I'm guessing you used a modern camp shovel to dig the holes and tunnel, maybe a period equivalent exists somewhere?
Would a wanderer carry such a thing? Perhaps if it were sufficiently multi-purpose, or if they dug a lot. The blade is not very sharp--and if sharpened, would soon be blunted by digging. However, it seems like one could find use for an edge that's not too keen. This hori looks to have only one edge that's sharp; I could definitely see using this to baton wood, meaning it could potentially replace my current big knife. This one, like most others I've seen, has one serrated edge, which would make it kind of useless for batoning but probably passable at gathering grasses and cutting green boughs?
In terms of just digging...I can think of several reasons you might want to dig a hole in the wild, over and above this fire setup. Perhaps this summer I'll try to harvest some tubers from the various lilies that grow in my forests. Lots of foraging could be aided by a sturdy tool for digging and rough cutting. Additionally...there's the usual reason to take a trowel camping: cat holes. While this might be less necessitated by courtesy for wanderers in more sparsely-populated settings, it could be an important precaution for a patroller who's playing cat-and-mouse with keen-nosed foes.
- Peter Remling
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
Try taking two sticks roughly 30" long and at least 2" in diameter. Whittle 1 end of each down on both sides leaving you two sticks with a flatten spatula like end.
Then make a small scoring midway around each stick. Take a thong, cord or shoelace and lash the two sticks together at the scoring mark, leaving a little slack.
You now have a small scale post holer to make the holes. Once you have the twin holes dug, take apart the post holer, break one on the sticks in half and you have a tool to connect the two holes.
Once you connected the holes and started your fire, burn the remains of your tools. Nothing wasted.
Then make a small scoring midway around each stick. Take a thong, cord or shoelace and lash the two sticks together at the scoring mark, leaving a little slack.
You now have a small scale post holer to make the holes. Once you have the twin holes dug, take apart the post holer, break one on the sticks in half and you have a tool to connect the two holes.
Once you connected the holes and started your fire, burn the remains of your tools. Nothing wasted.
- SierraStrider
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
I'll have to give that a try.
- Elleth
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
SS - thank you SO much for doing this and talking about how it went!
I've heard of tricks like this and meant to give it a try forever, and to my shame have never once tried it. Thank you!
The problem of digging tools though, ugh. I so don't want to carry another thing.
If memory serves, the modern hiking community went through a bit of a tussle a few years back on "digging with your walking stick is good enough" and "no, ultra-light trowels are much better." Which is grand if you've got titanium and only need to dig a shallow cathole I suppose, but doesn't seem to help much with our end of the hobby.
Back in the day, I know it was rare for people to travel alone, and tools were spread about the party. As one man had the big cookpot and another a full-size axe, I imagine a third might have a spade.
I have seen period iron-shod wooden shovels, and have long meant to get one for fall camp at least. Perhaps a ranging party might have a smaller version of the same?
https://medievalcraft.eu/index.php?p509,shovel-type-i
That's less useful for folks travelling fast and light on their own though. I recall hearing stories of soldiers digging with bayonets, but... ugh. That sounds like a moment-of-desperation thing - or at least an era where they didn't actually expect to have to use those blades for guarding their skins with. I know I don't want to go stabbing any knife of mine into gravelly New England dirt, but I suppose one would do what one must.
I've always thought a solution in the direction of Peter's makes sense, provided one has time and is in a place where the materials are at hand.
On the other hand, if you're in a position where you're trying to hide your fire, you probably also don't want to be thwacking at wood with a hatchet for all to hear either.
So I dunno. :/
For a person alone... I'd think either an impromptu carved digging stick or (ugh) one's longknife was the go-to option.
I think we hobbyists and our toy-kits don't often appreciate how such tools are simply another consumable to those with bigger concerns than a fun jaunt in the woods.
I've heard of tricks like this and meant to give it a try forever, and to my shame have never once tried it. Thank you!
The problem of digging tools though, ugh. I so don't want to carry another thing.
If memory serves, the modern hiking community went through a bit of a tussle a few years back on "digging with your walking stick is good enough" and "no, ultra-light trowels are much better." Which is grand if you've got titanium and only need to dig a shallow cathole I suppose, but doesn't seem to help much with our end of the hobby.
Back in the day, I know it was rare for people to travel alone, and tools were spread about the party. As one man had the big cookpot and another a full-size axe, I imagine a third might have a spade.
I have seen period iron-shod wooden shovels, and have long meant to get one for fall camp at least. Perhaps a ranging party might have a smaller version of the same?
https://medievalcraft.eu/index.php?p509,shovel-type-i
That's less useful for folks travelling fast and light on their own though. I recall hearing stories of soldiers digging with bayonets, but... ugh. That sounds like a moment-of-desperation thing - or at least an era where they didn't actually expect to have to use those blades for guarding their skins with. I know I don't want to go stabbing any knife of mine into gravelly New England dirt, but I suppose one would do what one must.
I've always thought a solution in the direction of Peter's makes sense, provided one has time and is in a place where the materials are at hand.
On the other hand, if you're in a position where you're trying to hide your fire, you probably also don't want to be thwacking at wood with a hatchet for all to hear either.
So I dunno. :/
For a person alone... I'd think either an impromptu carved digging stick or (ugh) one's longknife was the go-to option.
I think we hobbyists and our toy-kits don't often appreciate how such tools are simply another consumable to those with bigger concerns than a fun jaunt in the woods.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
- Iodo
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
Just a thought but; wouldn't a small piece of broken steel plate armor, maybe a part of a shoulder pauldron or similar (the kind of thing someone might take from the body of a slain orc as a trophy) with a piece of wood riveted over one edge to make it comfortable to hold, be basically the same as a modern camp-trowel I know it's an extra thing to carry but it wouldn't need to be big or heavy and could have an interesting story behind it
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
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- SierraStrider
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
I had a titanium trowel at one point. Bent it. The lighter, aluminum trowel was a lot sturdier. Turns out, design matters substantially more than material.Elleth wrote:Which is grand if you've got titanium
While I am as horrified at the prospect as you of using an actual knife to dig, I think that hori is a pretty good option. I'd think of it less as a knife you dig with and more a trowel you can baton with. I think that that, coupled with a small, razor-sharp by-knife, could cover most of the cutting tasks my current big knife does at a roughly equivalent weight and bulk.Elleth wrote:I'd think either an impromptu carved digging stick or (ugh) one's longknife was the go-to option
- Greg
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
Udwin carries a deer scapula (bone) for digging catholes and the like. Couldn't be hard to find one, given how much roadkill I see a week!
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
- SierraStrider
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
Great thought! I've got plenty of sheep scapulae around. a little smaller, but the perfect shape.Greg wrote:Udwin carries a deer scapula (bone) for digging catholes and the like.
- SierraStrider
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
I decided to get a little more use out of my firehole. I wanted to try cooking over it, as well as testing the kit I've assembled so far "in action."
I doffed my travel gear and started a fire.
I then set up a little...what would you call this? A spit? A crane?...whatever, a stick, supported by two forks, designed to span the fire hole, on which I could hang my cook pot. A very nice aspect of the firehole is the ability to easily suspend a pot over it without setting the hanging aparatus on fire, or needing a suspension system with a very wide span to straddle a standard campfire.
If I were using a different fire setup, here's another use ofthat toggle rope I made.
Once the water had reached a healthy boil, I prepared my lunch--red lentils.
To the best of my knowledge, the only seasonings mentioned in the literature are sage, thyme, parsley(?) and bay. I may be stretching a little, but my preferred spice kit is basil, salt, pepper, and hot paprika. Peppers could've arrived in Middle-earth along with nicotiana, right?...well, in any case, that's what I've seasoned my lentils with (minus the basil).
And here's the finished soup! It was surprisingly tasty, given that I didn't add any fat or bullion--just lentils and seasoning. You can also see my favorite bushcraft knife, which has scales made from a composite of space-age epoxy and canvas which, sadly, is cotton, and therefore not canon. If only I had sourced linen micarta...
All in all, I was very pleased with this. It makes me all the more enthusiastic about the firehole setup, and it was the first time I did anything in my full gear other than just running. I learned that I don't really like wearing my chest harness while sitting around camp. That means I probably want a separate belt for my need wallet and by-knife. I also learned that I need some utensils...just a spoon would do nicely. Also, I DEFINITELY need a snapsack or similar. I really want to do stuff like this somewhere other than just my back yard.
I doffed my travel gear and started a fire.
I then set up a little...what would you call this? A spit? A crane?...whatever, a stick, supported by two forks, designed to span the fire hole, on which I could hang my cook pot. A very nice aspect of the firehole is the ability to easily suspend a pot over it without setting the hanging aparatus on fire, or needing a suspension system with a very wide span to straddle a standard campfire.
If I were using a different fire setup, here's another use ofthat toggle rope I made.
Once the water had reached a healthy boil, I prepared my lunch--red lentils.
To the best of my knowledge, the only seasonings mentioned in the literature are sage, thyme, parsley(?) and bay. I may be stretching a little, but my preferred spice kit is basil, salt, pepper, and hot paprika. Peppers could've arrived in Middle-earth along with nicotiana, right?...well, in any case, that's what I've seasoned my lentils with (minus the basil).
And here's the finished soup! It was surprisingly tasty, given that I didn't add any fat or bullion--just lentils and seasoning. You can also see my favorite bushcraft knife, which has scales made from a composite of space-age epoxy and canvas which, sadly, is cotton, and therefore not canon. If only I had sourced linen micarta...
All in all, I was very pleased with this. It makes me all the more enthusiastic about the firehole setup, and it was the first time I did anything in my full gear other than just running. I learned that I don't really like wearing my chest harness while sitting around camp. That means I probably want a separate belt for my need wallet and by-knife. I also learned that I need some utensils...just a spoon would do nicely. Also, I DEFINITELY need a snapsack or similar. I really want to do stuff like this somewhere other than just my back yard.
- Iodo
- Thangailhir
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
Awesome test
what are the approximate sizes of the holes (diameter, depth, distance between etc..)
what are the approximate sizes of the holes (diameter, depth, distance between etc..)
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
That’s awesome! Thanks for sharing your results! Looks like your kit is really coming together too! I’ve been really enjoying these recent posts! Keep it up!
(And yes, definitely grab a snapsack if you can - they are SO handy!)
(And yes, definitely grab a snapsack if you can - they are SO handy!)
Maerondir Perianseron, also called “Mickel,” Halfling Friend - Ranger of the Misty Mountains
- SierraStrider
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
I would say between a foot and a foot and a half deep (30-45cm), 6-8 inches wide (15-20cm), with about the same distance between them. You can also dig in obliquely for the intake hole, rather than straight down then over. You could also probably scale everything up, but this seemed like a good size.Iodo wrote:What are the approximate sizes of the holes (diameter, depth, distance between etc..)
I took Greg's advice and made myself a little trowel out of a scapula. Might be a little small and/or delicate, depending on the soil, but we'll see.
- Iodo
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Re: Dakota Firehole Experiment Results
Thanks for the info, for some reason I expected it to be wider than 6-8"SierraStrider wrote: I would say between a foot and a foot and a half deep (30-45cm), 6-8 inches wide (15-20cm), with about the same distance between them. You can also dig in obliquely for the intake hole, rather than straight down then over. You could also probably scale everything up, but this seemed like a good size.
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.