Clothes vs Costume
- Tom_Ranger
- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2022 2:02 am
Clothes vs Costume
There is a concept that most people outside this community don’t quite wrap their brain around, and I thought we should chat a bit about it. The way to tell the difference between a costume and clothes.
So where does one draw the line between them? What is the difference between a Ranger costume and Ranger clothes? At a glance, both can look identical, but the person wearing it can tell the difference.
A costume is something one puts on to create an illusion for others to see; so they know you are playing a part. it’s something you wear for a few hours but just don’t feel very comfortable in. It’s something you are happy to get out of as soon as you get home. What we see on Game of Thrones usually have a hidden zipper and have plastic on them that look like metal. I don’t know how many times actors at conventions have said the visitors stuff is much better quality because it’s real. But, let’s face it. Performing with real armor all day long is much harder than with plastic.
Clothes on the other hand have utility; they keep you warm, dry and safe. It’s something your content to wear all day long and put on the next because they are comfortable; they fit, they do what they look like and look good also. At a LARP most of the actors have more realistic outfits because it’s up close and personal, and not just a two hour stage performance.
In recent years I’ve come to realize the clothes in stores are more and more like a costume. They are more about looks, but not real comfortable, and don’t work so well at keeping one warm or dry. So I combine the old styles; when I’m cold at home, I grab a short ruana cloak and wear it like a tunic. I have a long leather belt which I wear GOT style, no need for holes, just a ring on one end, and not even that if I just use a long rope.
Another thing I noticed is the way we have all be taught to tie our shoes. They come undone so easily; so I decided to treat shoe laces, the same way I do a belt. Starting at the top I leave a loop or attach a steel ring (via girth hitch), lace it down then back up, with both ends coming out at one side, then I loop them twice in the steel ring, tuck under, over then drop the rest down the string loop GOT style. Good all day.
In the summer time it’s not uncommon for me to wear a home made head wrap. (Big trapezoid made from old shirt). It protects my head from the sun, sweat, bees, spiders, etc. and if a bug lands on the back of my neck, no problem, I just turn my head and the bugs are brushed away.
It was when Iodo pointed out that she made a head wrap that I realized I can make a winter version of the same thing I wear in the summer. Just made out of wool. Better than any hat I can buy in a store.
Leg and arm wraps can be a much improvement over most gloves and socks if done correctly.
Shirts, with the closed off arm pits always creates a heat and sweat issue if you are doing any degree of work, A tunic on the other hand will either have that part open, or it will have more space and will breath better.
As for shoes. Okay, I think we have made improvements on them over the years. Shoes with traction and wear really well. Pants have improved also on the most part, Levi did well at making them rugged.
So where does one draw the line between them? What is the difference between a Ranger costume and Ranger clothes? At a glance, both can look identical, but the person wearing it can tell the difference.
A costume is something one puts on to create an illusion for others to see; so they know you are playing a part. it’s something you wear for a few hours but just don’t feel very comfortable in. It’s something you are happy to get out of as soon as you get home. What we see on Game of Thrones usually have a hidden zipper and have plastic on them that look like metal. I don’t know how many times actors at conventions have said the visitors stuff is much better quality because it’s real. But, let’s face it. Performing with real armor all day long is much harder than with plastic.
Clothes on the other hand have utility; they keep you warm, dry and safe. It’s something your content to wear all day long and put on the next because they are comfortable; they fit, they do what they look like and look good also. At a LARP most of the actors have more realistic outfits because it’s up close and personal, and not just a two hour stage performance.
In recent years I’ve come to realize the clothes in stores are more and more like a costume. They are more about looks, but not real comfortable, and don’t work so well at keeping one warm or dry. So I combine the old styles; when I’m cold at home, I grab a short ruana cloak and wear it like a tunic. I have a long leather belt which I wear GOT style, no need for holes, just a ring on one end, and not even that if I just use a long rope.
Another thing I noticed is the way we have all be taught to tie our shoes. They come undone so easily; so I decided to treat shoe laces, the same way I do a belt. Starting at the top I leave a loop or attach a steel ring (via girth hitch), lace it down then back up, with both ends coming out at one side, then I loop them twice in the steel ring, tuck under, over then drop the rest down the string loop GOT style. Good all day.
In the summer time it’s not uncommon for me to wear a home made head wrap. (Big trapezoid made from old shirt). It protects my head from the sun, sweat, bees, spiders, etc. and if a bug lands on the back of my neck, no problem, I just turn my head and the bugs are brushed away.
It was when Iodo pointed out that she made a head wrap that I realized I can make a winter version of the same thing I wear in the summer. Just made out of wool. Better than any hat I can buy in a store.
Leg and arm wraps can be a much improvement over most gloves and socks if done correctly.
Shirts, with the closed off arm pits always creates a heat and sweat issue if you are doing any degree of work, A tunic on the other hand will either have that part open, or it will have more space and will breath better.
As for shoes. Okay, I think we have made improvements on them over the years. Shoes with traction and wear really well. Pants have improved also on the most part, Levi did well at making them rugged.
Life is a great adventure; if I live to be 10,000 years old, it won't be enough.
- Iodo
- Thangailhir
- Posts: 2112
- Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
- Location: North west england UK
- Contact:
Re: Clothes vs Costume
That's an interesting thing to debate, and sorry for the late reply, I haven't had a lot of time for being online lately
Yeah, I often find it difficult to tell the difference myself sometimes,
That's pretty much how I use-to think of it, but when you think a little deeper the go to rule of "it keeps me warm/dry" falls down a bit because that depends on where/when the clothes/costume is meant to be worn. I have a pirate costume that really is made for a Caribbean climate, does it keep me warm/dry in the UK? No, but in the Caribbean would it be appropriate clothing? all the materials are real (no plastic leather, polyester, foam etc...), it would keep the sun off my head/skin, it wouldn't be too hot. so does that make it clothing or a costume? or is it a costume in the UK that becomes clothing if I were to go to the Caribbean wearing it? I don't think that's a sensible conclusion to make because using that logic: shorts wouldn't be considered clothing during the winter months, and we also have this to consider:
In my personal opinion a costume is something that should be reasonably well made, recognisable and comfortable enough to be able to convincingly play your character while wearing it and while at the event you made it for, with my dwarven kit that "event" is adventuring outdoors in real weather, and with my steampunk explorer costume that "event" is indoors at a convention centre, because of this the latter costume wouldn't be warm enough to use actually exploring, likewise I wouldn't be too hot inside a convention centre. If a costume ends up being "something I am happy to get out of as soon as I get home" I feel like I did it wrong, but being comfortable wearing it doesn't make my steampunk explorer costume "clothes" either, so what does?
I feel like it depends on how you think about what you are wearing, I use-to consider my dwarven kit to be a costume because at first it felt a lot like just dressing up as a dwarf even though the clothing was functional, a big part of it was that because I was wearing something that felt very different to what I usually wore, I was a lot more aware of it, but now I'm so use-to my kit that I don't think about it at all. By being totally natural in that kit/carrying that equipment, I am able to truly function as Iodo, Fells-ward of Erebor really would, she would be no more aware in the back of her mind that she was "dressed as a dwarf", than you are aware that you are "dressed as a human" when you go to work
It is when you stop feeling like you are in "costume", that a kit truly becomes clothes
Tom_Ranger wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:16 am There is a concept that most people outside this community don’t quite wrap their brain around, and I thought we should chat a bit about it. The way to tell the difference between a costume and clothes.
So where does one draw the line between them? What is the difference between a Ranger costume and Ranger clothes? At a glance, both can look identical, but the person wearing it can tell the difference.
Yeah, I often find it difficult to tell the difference myself sometimes,
Tom_Ranger wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:16 am A costume is something one puts on to create an illusion for others to see...
...Clothes on the other hand have utility; they keep you warm, dry and safe. It’s something your content to wear all day long and put on the next because they are comfortable; they fit, they do what they look like and look good also
That's pretty much how I use-to think of it, but when you think a little deeper the go to rule of "it keeps me warm/dry" falls down a bit because that depends on where/when the clothes/costume is meant to be worn. I have a pirate costume that really is made for a Caribbean climate, does it keep me warm/dry in the UK? No, but in the Caribbean would it be appropriate clothing? all the materials are real (no plastic leather, polyester, foam etc...), it would keep the sun off my head/skin, it wouldn't be too hot. so does that make it clothing or a costume? or is it a costume in the UK that becomes clothing if I were to go to the Caribbean wearing it? I don't think that's a sensible conclusion to make because using that logic: shorts wouldn't be considered clothing during the winter months, and we also have this to consider:
Tom_Ranger wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:16 am A costume is something one puts on to create an illusion for others to see; so they know you are playing a part. it’s something you wear for a few hours but just don’t feel very comfortable in. It’s something you are happy to get out of as soon as you get home...
In my personal opinion a costume is something that should be reasonably well made, recognisable and comfortable enough to be able to convincingly play your character while wearing it and while at the event you made it for, with my dwarven kit that "event" is adventuring outdoors in real weather, and with my steampunk explorer costume that "event" is indoors at a convention centre, because of this the latter costume wouldn't be warm enough to use actually exploring, likewise I wouldn't be too hot inside a convention centre. If a costume ends up being "something I am happy to get out of as soon as I get home" I feel like I did it wrong, but being comfortable wearing it doesn't make my steampunk explorer costume "clothes" either, so what does?
I feel like it depends on how you think about what you are wearing, I use-to consider my dwarven kit to be a costume because at first it felt a lot like just dressing up as a dwarf even though the clothing was functional, a big part of it was that because I was wearing something that felt very different to what I usually wore, I was a lot more aware of it, but now I'm so use-to my kit that I don't think about it at all. By being totally natural in that kit/carrying that equipment, I am able to truly function as Iodo, Fells-ward of Erebor really would, she would be no more aware in the back of her mind that she was "dressed as a dwarf", than you are aware that you are "dressed as a human" when you go to work
It is when you stop feeling like you are in "costume", that a kit truly becomes clothes
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
- Tom_Ranger
- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2022 2:02 am
Re: Clothes vs Costume
I like the way you think, and if you have other kits you should make a video on your channel showing them all. I love the Caribbean, I use to go there all the time. And would like to see your Steampunk take on things too. My normal street clothes tend to be a little steampunk or a touch of goth some people say, but that's probably because I wear a lot of black.Iodo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:39 am That's pretty much how I use-to think of it, but when you think a little deeper the go to rule of "it keeps me warm/dry" falls down a bit because that depends on where/when the clothes/costume is meant to be worn. I have a pirate costume that really is made for a Caribbean climate, does it keep me warm/dry in the UK? No, but in the Caribbean would it be appropriate clothing? all the materials are real (no plastic leather, polyester, foam etc...), it would keep the sun off my head/skin, it wouldn't be too hot. so does that make it clothing or a costume? or is it a costume in the UK that becomes clothing if I were to go to the Caribbean wearing it? I don't think that's a sensible conclusion to make because using that logic: shorts wouldn't be considered clothing during the winter months, and we also have this to consider:
Life is a great adventure; if I live to be 10,000 years old, it won't be enough.
- Iodo
- Thangailhir
- Posts: 2112
- Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
- Location: North west england UK
- Contact:
Re: Clothes vs Costume
Thanks I would make a video of other stuff, but the other stuff is not really complete enough, and steampunk is really outside of the topic of my channel but my garb can be seen here if your intrested: viewtopic.php?p=49640#p49640Tom_Ranger wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:10 am I like the way you think, and if you have other kits you should make a video on your channel showing them all. I love the Caribbean, I use to go there all the time. And would like to see your Steampunk take on things too. My normal street clothes tend to be a little steampunk or a touch of goth some people say, but that's probably because I wear a lot of black.
As for my "normal street clothes", I don't think I have such a thing anymore, my wardrobe is 80% garb/costume and 20% hiking gear, and somewhere in between the two I try to make "normal-ish" outfits that don't stand out to much, and if in doubt I wear my work overalls
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
- Tom_Ranger
- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2022 2:02 am
Re: Clothes vs Costume
That's the way I am all the time. I'll get around to posting pics as soon as I get a chance.Iodo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 12:52 pmThanks I would make a video of other stuff, but the other stuff is not really complete enough, and steampunk is really outside of the topic of my channel but my garb can be seen here if your intrested: viewtopic.php?p=49640#p49640Tom_Ranger wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:10 am I like the way you think, and if you have other kits you should make a video on your channel showing them all. I love the Caribbean, I use to go there all the time. And would like to see your Steampunk take on things too. My normal street clothes tend to be a little steampunk or a touch of goth some people say, but that's probably because I wear a lot of black.
As for my "normal street clothes", I don't think I have such a thing anymore, my wardrobe is 80% garb/costume and 20% hiking gear, and somewhere in between the two I try to make "normal-ish" outfits that don't stand out to much, and if in doubt I wear my work overalls
Life is a great adventure; if I live to be 10,000 years old, it won't be enough.
Re: Clothes vs Costume
I know the feeling Iodo, probably not helped by the fact that I can't ever give a quick reply.
It's a difficult topic to discuss because it has so many branches off of the main path.Tom_Ranger wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:16 am There is a concept that most people outside this community don’t quite wrap their brain around, and I thought we should chat a bit about it. The way to tell the difference between a costume and clothes.
While I agree with some of your ideas overall I can't entirely come onboard to the fact that all modern clothing is not suitable for task - I do however think that in order to get modern clothing that fits the bill you need to spend more. As someone who has worked outdoors and spent over 15,000 hours on a motorcycle over the past ten years I would much rather be wearing a good layer of Goretex than several woolen garments in heavy rain. Likewise my hideously expensive insulated jacket will keep me warm in arctic conditions (though it loses that ability if wet), it also packs down to a 15cm ball and weighs about half of nothing. I also adore cloaks and wear them around the house all the time but would be faced with a severe hazard if I operated machinery in one.
Another factor is heat, while in winter I dress a lot like a hobbit in tweeds and waistcoats the summers here are brutal and I usually resort to wearing tropical wear like singlets, sarongs and linen fisherman pants all of which are pretty darn comfortable.
As to your main question I would propose that the difference in a costume and clothing is in the gap between their ability to perform the intended role that the costume was designed for.
You can have the prettiest Aragorn costume in the world but if you can't spend a night in the wild, or climb a mountain without your seams splitting then it's a costume.
You can have an amazing set of dwarven plate armour to cosplay in but if the plastic scratches when you brush against a door then it's a costume.
You can have.... endless options
When I am at a living history event and I'm wearing clothing that I have laboured all day in, foraged, climbed mountains and slept in minus temperatures that is clothing, The guy who pulls his cotton blend tunic out to do his one annual event with his beard rings and his drinking horn holder.... Is in a costume.
But the white fury of the Northmen burned the hotter, and more skilled was their knighthood with long spears and bitter. Fewer were they but they clove through the Southrons like a fire-bolt in a forest.
- Tom_Ranger
- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2022 2:02 am
Re: Clothes vs Costume
I think you're dead on what I was thinking. In my street clothes I usually sport military boots because they are rugged, light weight, comfortable, have plenty of traction. My home made (mod) Tricorn hat, and my belt usually has several phone cases hanging on it for utility. Phone, Med kit, small chow kit, small shelter kit and a Hygiene kit.Eofor wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:04 am It's a difficult topic to discuss because it has so many branches off of the main path.
When I am at a living history event and I'm wearing clothing that I have laboured all day in, foraged, climbed mountains and slept in minus temperatures that is clothing, The guy who pulls his cotton blend tunic out to do his one annual event with his beard rings and his drinking horn holder.... Is in a costume.
When I'm at home, I'll grab a Ruana cloak for warmth or make a quick blanket cloak.
If I'm out for a hike especially in the mountains I usually have a head wrap (old shirt cut into a triangle and tied over my head. I abandoned the old molle packs and simply use multiple belts, and I keep plenty of loops on my wrist so I can attach most anything to my clothes or belts.
Now a renfest or similar, I'm in a full kit with Forest Boots (Armstreet), And my typical pants and shirt and cloaks and bags and such that I picked up over the years (I'll get some pics posted eventually).
Now Camping is my next task, using ancient gear only. My goal is to go camping with enough ancient gear that I can travel easily and not be encumbered, but have enough to survive and defend against the elements and orcs without too much of a struggle.
Life is a great adventure; if I live to be 10,000 years old, it won't be enough.
Re: Clothes vs Costume
I'm with Eofor on the practicality of modern clothing. I'm not about to toss out my trusty Carhartt work coat for a cloak when I'm out working in the field.There's a reason that clothing evolved as it did. Now if I were camping in cooler weather, I would definitely bring my cloak for those brisk early mornings. Does that make it just a costume piece then? I'd argue not as I'm still using it for it's intended purpose, just in a slightly less robust context.
I think what it comes down to your personal comfort and ease in wearing your kit. It's all in the attitude. For example, I do a bit of Indiana Jones cosplay on the side and it's a fairly regular topic in that realm about wearing the costume in your daily life. Some folks get nervous about being out and about wearing a leather jacket and hat because "Hey, you trying to be Indiana Jones?!". Meanwhile, I work as an actual archaeologist and I regularly wear my hat and satchel out and about. The only comments I get are the occasional "Hey, that's a nice hat." I don't think I've ever gotten a comparison to Indy aside from playful teasing from my friends. What's the difference? I just wear the dang thing. I don't get all nervous about being called out. Honestly, at this point I don't even think of it as an Indiana Jones fedora. It's just my hat, y'know?
Same goes for the Middle-earth kit. A little bit of confidence and a whole lotta not caring goes a long way. If you treat it like a costume or cosplay, it becomes a costume in your mind. If you're all nervous and self-conscious about "Ohh, I'm just doing an Aragorn LARP", that tends toward the feeling of it being a costume. If you just focus on getting in there and doing what you need to do (lighting a fire, setting up your shelter, cooking dinner, etc), at that point you're just wearing the appropriate clothing, yeah?
I mean, Eofor also has it right with the difference in a costume and clothing being in the gap between their ability to perform the intended role that the costume was designed for. That part's essential too haha. No good freezing to death in a cotton tunic when you should have had a nice thick wool version.
I think what it comes down to your personal comfort and ease in wearing your kit. It's all in the attitude. For example, I do a bit of Indiana Jones cosplay on the side and it's a fairly regular topic in that realm about wearing the costume in your daily life. Some folks get nervous about being out and about wearing a leather jacket and hat because "Hey, you trying to be Indiana Jones?!". Meanwhile, I work as an actual archaeologist and I regularly wear my hat and satchel out and about. The only comments I get are the occasional "Hey, that's a nice hat." I don't think I've ever gotten a comparison to Indy aside from playful teasing from my friends. What's the difference? I just wear the dang thing. I don't get all nervous about being called out. Honestly, at this point I don't even think of it as an Indiana Jones fedora. It's just my hat, y'know?
Same goes for the Middle-earth kit. A little bit of confidence and a whole lotta not caring goes a long way. If you treat it like a costume or cosplay, it becomes a costume in your mind. If you're all nervous and self-conscious about "Ohh, I'm just doing an Aragorn LARP", that tends toward the feeling of it being a costume. If you just focus on getting in there and doing what you need to do (lighting a fire, setting up your shelter, cooking dinner, etc), at that point you're just wearing the appropriate clothing, yeah?
I mean, Eofor also has it right with the difference in a costume and clothing being in the gap between their ability to perform the intended role that the costume was designed for. That part's essential too haha. No good freezing to death in a cotton tunic when you should have had a nice thick wool version.
Persona : Cimrandir - late 3rd Age Dunedain
- Tom_Ranger
- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2022 2:02 am
Re: Clothes vs Costume
You know the rest of us will have to call you Indy now right?Cimrandir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:56 am I think what it comes down to your personal comfort and ease in wearing your kit. It's all in the attitude. For example, I do a bit of Indiana Jones cosplay on the side and it's a fairly regular topic in that realm about wearing the costume in your daily life. Some folks get nervous about being out and about wearing a leather jacket and hat because "Hey, you trying to be Indiana Jones?!". Meanwhile, I work as an actual archaeologist and I regularly wear my hat and satchel out and about. The only comments I get are the occasional "Hey, that's a nice hat." I don't think I've ever gotten a comparison to Indy aside from playful teasing from my friends.
Life is a great adventure; if I live to be 10,000 years old, it won't be enough.
- Ghostsoldier
- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:28 am
- Location: NE Florida
Re: Clothes vs Costume
Well, that's awesome to hear; I've also been doing an Indy impression myself for the last few years.
(Sorry to hi-jack the thread )
Rob
"Nothing's forgotten."
Re: Clothes vs Costume
Hey, I do believe I've seen your gear pictures on one of the Indy Facebook pages! That's so cool and you look great!Ghostsoldier wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:14 amWell, that's awesome to hear; I've also been doing an Indy impression myself for the last few years.
Rob
Persona : Cimrandir - late 3rd Age Dunedain
- Ghostsoldier
- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:28 am
- Location: NE Florida
Re: Clothes vs Costume
Thanks...but, you are the one with the awesome cool job in real life!Hey, I do believe I've seen your gear pictures on one of the Indy Facebook pages! That's so cool and you look great!
Rob
"Nothing's forgotten."
- Elleth
- êphal ki-*raznahê
- Posts: 2941
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
- Location: in the Angle; New England
Re: Clothes vs Costume
.... so jealous about that, by the way.Thanks...but, you are the one with the awesome cool job in real life!
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
Re: Clothes vs Costume
Aww shucks, ya'll. Didn't intend to hijack the thread in such a fashion but I appreciate it. The jobs got it's ups and downs like any other but I feel extremely lucky to be doing it everyday. I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Persona : Cimrandir - late 3rd Age Dunedain
- Iodo
- Thangailhir
- Posts: 2112
- Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
- Location: North west england UK
- Contact:
Re: Clothes vs Costume
Cimrandir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:56 am I'm with Eofor on the practicality of modern clothing. I'm not about to toss out my trusty Carhartt work coat for a cloak when I'm out working in the field.There's a reason that clothing evolved as it did. Now if I were camping in cooler weather, I would definitely bring my cloak for those brisk early mornings. Does that make it just a costume piece then? I'd argue not as I'm still using it for it's intended purpose, just in a slightly less robust context.
I agree, there are certain situations where modern is absolutely best, footwear is a good example most of the time, and in my line of work a big thing is safety, but there are also situations where old is best, I often find the linen/wool combo to be a better base-layer for hiking, it is heavier than your polyester/polyamide fleece but it does seem to preform better
that's the coolest thing I have read in a while
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.