Middle Earth Ranger Forum

Because of their size and shape a dwarves' center of gravity is lower then a human, this will allow them to swing heavier weapons with less of a chance of falling over.

I always thought that their bodies were a little denser then ours, another contributing factor.

While I agree that the modern definition of a mattock has a 90 degree spike, this doesn't always have to be true. All hammers are called hammers, it is only family designation so all tools of this sort, may simply been known as mattocks, at least by dwarves.

Because of their size and shape a dwarf, dwarves' center of gravity is lower then a human, this will allow them to swing heavier weapons with less of a chance of falling over.

I always thought that their bodies were a little denser then ours, another contributing factor.

While I agree that the modern definition of a mattock has a 90 degree spike, this doesn't always have to be true. All hammers are called hammers, it is only a family designation so all tools of this sort, may simply been known as mattocks, at least by dwarves.

Well that is certainly true, many people classify tools and their varients by families and Tolkien left us with little more than the word and our common understanding of early twentieth century farming and gardening tools to go by.

I am enamored by a phrase that was used a bit back then though,

"If you hear hoofbeats outside your window on the street, don't expect a zebra."

If he were going for something out of the ordinary, Prof. Tolkien, not being a man who lacked the powers of description, would most likely have painted a much clearer picture for us.

Peter Remling wrote:All hammers are called hammers, it is only family designation so all tools of this sort, may simply been known as mattocks, at least by dwarves.

...and because Tolkien went into very little detail as far as fleshing out the Dwarven language and culture compared to the depth of Elves and their heritage, we will never truly know.

Ringulf, you've made your point. I see no reason to discuss the name aspect of the tool any further. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here, and I'm perfectly fine with that. Such an occasion will occur often in a re-creation organization where the end product is based on one's own interpretation, so we should just leave it at that.

Personally I always imagined the mattocks as being the axe/digging tool type, mostly because Tolkien says it is used for "hewing" through orcs. Hewing is used specifically for cutting blows, and historically has heavy connotations to axes. I don't think Tolkien, as a linguist, would have overlooked that fact.

I WILL agree that this hammer/mattock could be just another variation of a mattock, and I'm cool with this interpretation. It fits well with the dwarves in my opinion. But I don't think it's accurate to the one Tolkien described.

Greg wrote: Ringulf, you've made your point. I see no reason to discuss the name aspect of the tool any further. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here, and I'm perfectly fine with that. Such an occasion will occur often in a re-creation organization where the end product is based on one's own interpretation, so we should just leave it at that.

Greg I''m sorry, please forgive my obstinance, I can get quite bull headed on these kind of issues. I will learn to temper myself.

I love the discusions here. It is really nice to discuss these topics with folks who are as deeply interested in these things as I am, and I am afraid I can get carried away.

I try not to become obnoxious or come off looking like a know it all.
Believe me, the fact is, the more I learn, the more I realize how little I do know, and I respect all of you guys and gals very much.

You know, you have all made me feel so comfortable, that here I am a week into being on the site feeling like I have always been here.

You have created a monster! lol I guess this environment is dangerous for one who has a hard time bridling enthusiasm.

So you all have carte blanche to tell me to clamb up if I ramble or get out of hand, Agreed?

And yes I am sure with the depth of background and stregnth of our imaginations we will from time to time just have to agree to disagree, after all this is a hobby not the UN and the only thing that hangs in the balance here is our viewpoints.

Dwarven mattocks? wow heck of a subject we will have to talk sometime! lol

Ringulf, one reason I am here and one reason I am a mod here is that it is a very welcoming forum. We're glad you are here and we certainly want you to feel welcome.

As for bull-headedness, well, put me on the bull-headed list too. I've posted a few things that later I wished I hadn't and I have sent my share of PMs asking forgiveness of a board member. I tend to be a passionate firey person and I let my mouth override my brain at times. When I go back and think about it, it's never a comfortable situation I've put myself in.

So, anyway, yeah, let's keep good conversation alive. Your artwork is beautiful. Perhaps if we ever get our questers to Rivendale in the Prancing Pony Inn story that we have going, you could have a character join up with us there.

No worries, Ringulf. I just wanted to keep the peace before someone (including myself) said something that might require Eric to exercice his aforementioned mod powers, etc. We're all friends here.

Such powers would awe meer mortal men, look away lest we turn to a piller of salt or fluffy kitten or such! lol (kittens are frightful creatures, oh yeah you think they are all cute and cudly...)

(Muttering to self while rummaging through the closet) Where oh where did I put that mod hat and staff? I guess I gotta call Jack for another new set. That's gonna cost me.

Eric C wrote:(Muttering to self while rummaging through the closet) Where oh where did I put that mod hat and staff?

Isn't that the hat and staff you wore to the Harry Potter premiere ?

YEAH!!! Oh...umm...How do I explain how this one went down.

Explain fast, or something's gonna go down...

rolf