New Axe/ Warhammer idea

A lot of reenactment level work is about learning appropriate historical crafts and skills. This board is for all general skills that don't have their own forum.

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Ringulf
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Ringulf »

I think the hardest part of this one is going to be cutting the curves.
If I get impatient and don't wait for the plasma cutter.
My angle grinder could easily cut through the material, but gets a bit grumpy when I try to make a curve.
Normally I would cut it at straight angles and grind it to produce the curves, but this pattern requires that I make a symetrical cut so both come out the same, whithout much loss of material.

Hmmm...Is a puzzlement! :mrgreen:
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
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Eric C
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Eric C »

Yeah, as long as you had to wait for that head, I think it would be wise to wait for the plasma cutter. I know it's hard, but BE STRONG DWARF!!! :lol: :lol:
Ichthean Forge (pronounced Ick thee an). Maker of knives, and primitive camping gear.
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Ringulf
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Ringulf »

I suppose that is the wisest choice Eric, ...well ok I suppose I will wait, I have a "few" other projects to keep me busy anyway! :wink:
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
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Ringulf
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Ringulf »

I was doing some research into the Varangian Guard and the other units of the Byzantine Armies in the 9th and 10th century as Ringulf in the SCA is a Varangian Archer/Fighter.

As I was looking at the classes of different fighters and archers, I found the main Byzantine archer, the Psilos.

The Psilos is a light Infantryman whose main weapon was the bow.
They generally used composit recurves and carried a hip quiver of forty arrows. Often on certain campains they would also carry a spare quiver on the back with additional arrows and/or javalins.
They sometimes substituted javalins, crossbow or staffsling for bow for different scenarios, and archers were sometimes issued a sling as a secondary missile weapon.

For hand to hand close combat they were normally given only a light hand axe called a Tzikourion and/or a spathion, a shortsword/long knife kind of weapon that looked a bit like PJ's "Sting" with it's leaflike blade.

The Tzikourion was a good primary weapon with a secondary weapon like the shortsword, knife or even buckler. Or could be used in pairs. They were balanced for throwing and often employed in that manner, if several were carried at once.

They rarely wore armor, but it says in the research I did, that the manuels for the Commanders encouraged, if they could, armoring as many Psilos as possible with mail shirts, leather lamelar or scale corslets.
They also carried a small buckler/targ around a foot in diameter, whose straps went around the forearm and through the palm but was light enough (and I supose far enough away from the bow hand or shifted to the wrist) to allow shooting the bow while holding the shield.

They utilized leather bracers and greives when armored or stiff, below the knee boots and wrist cuffs when going light

So I can see Ringulf as a cross trained Varangian archer, having some of this equipment and yet retaining much of his traditional dress and gear as it applied. (Less and less of it as it wore out from use.)

Back to the Tzikourion. I am going to put up the picture that started this little jaunt into what had been my first choice of persona in order to allow my persona a bit more variety in the selection of arms and armor.

I drifted away from it when I felt incapable healthwise of doing heavy armored combat and moved into the live weapons and archery.

Jumping between 12th century RobinHood-esque persona and a Danish mercenary defecting from King John's Army, I felt unsettled and not true to my orriginal concept. Till now!

This 10th Century Bizantine mixture allows me to do my Ranger type Archery, Combat archery and my Live Weapons (ie axes, seaxes, javalins and now sling!!!), look very Norse and make complete period sense.

And I will point out to you the one element that I found so serendipitous that it tied it all together for me...

Look at the dude's Tzikourion axe on his belt....seen it before?

Image

"I got your Tzikourion right here!!"
(in fact I have two!)
Image

The top horn of the blade of mine is longer but there was a tremendous variance of shape in the the research anyway, the criteria seemed to be a light hand axe with an edged blade and either a spike or poll. The shapes of both varied as did the legnth of the handle.

Like I said this one will throw and thrust better than the bearded style or the one on his belt though it is very close.

Ringulf "Tvier Ox" is back on the trail! :mrgreen:
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
kaelln

Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by kaelln »

The word "Varangian" is also used in the "Dies the Fire" series. Sir Nigel Loring uses it to describe the Special Icelandic Deployment forces in England after the Change. So, after you used it, I had to look it up! According to Wikipedia,"Varangians or Varyags was the name given by Greeks and East Slavs to Vikings". It's pretty cool that your new axes will match that pic so closely!
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Peter Remling
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Peter Remling »

When my younger brother Mike was in the SCA his persona was that of one of the Varagian Guard. He carried a large Danish axe, a Del Tin Viking sword and a sax he ground out of a steel lever for some industrial machine.
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Peter Remling »

BTW, I just took a good look at the bow in the picture. Looks a lot like this one, doesn't it?:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn46 ... p/bow3.jpg
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Ringulf
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

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"From the name of their state the Scandinavian incomers were called in the sources Rus or Rhos, a term whose origin is still debated, but Eastern Slovonic and Byzantine sources called these adventurers Varangians (Varjag, VaraguVarinjar) Again the etymology is debatable, but a widely accepted theory is that the word comes from Var(pl varar), which means "confidence" or "vow of fidelity" (in proto-norse varingr,ie a group of men who had sworn an oath of alleigence and fellowship." ~The Varangian Guard 988=1453 by Osprey Publishing

I kind of liken them to the Khazad Guard or the Tomb Guard of MoriaWhen dealing with M.E. Ringulf
Like him:

Image
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
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Ringulf
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Ringulf »

Eric,
I took your advice and waited till we could get it done properly.
Well that time has come and I now have pictures of the double bit axe turned into two Tsikourian axe heads.

Brandwyn was able to work her magic, this time with an Oxi acetalane torch, which was not the easiest of tasks due to the large drift hole in the center.

The plasma torch was going to have some difficulty permiating the two walls with the space in between evenly, so she used a few cutting tricks and viola these are the picks!

They will be in the mail tommorow and I may be able to grind and mount them for Coronation (labor day week end" if I jump on them right away. May not happen as I have some leather commissions and some seax knives to do as well as make a thrown weapons target or two. So we will see, but at any rate here they are at stage 2! :mrgreen:

Image
Image
Image
Image

Next step....GRINDING! Yay I love grinding! :mrgreen:
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
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Peter Remling
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Peter Remling »

Those are going to be perfect, can't wait to see the final result. What artistic "magic" do you plan on for the hafts ?
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Eric C
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Eric C »

Oxi Acetylene!? :shock: She could teach me a thing or two... or a few ... about using a torch! That is some mighty fine cutting! Can't wait to see what you do with it.

I still haven't started on my project yet. I've got to get a couple of orders out of the way first.
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Ringulf
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Ringulf »

Peter Remling wrote:Those are going to be perfect, can't wait to see the final result. What artistic "magic" do you plan on for the hafts ?
The hafts may be a challenge as they must do double duty. They must represent both a Varangian version of the Byzantine Tsikourion, and a nicely made set of Dwarven axes of the House of Uri.

I may make several pair so I have a set of throwers, that are fairly plain and a set of showers which will be the set I have decorated for my "merf" kit. I was thinking of doing some angerthas inscriptions and some possible geometric artwork carved into the fancy ones, but that may be down the road a bit I would like to get the pair ready to throw at coronation.

I had also been thinking of trying my hand at some niello work, as I have been studying that for a while in anticipation of just such a project as this.
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
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Ringulf
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Ringulf »

Eric C wrote:Oxi Acetylene!? :shock: She could teach me a thing or two... or a few ... about using a torch! That is some mighty fine cutting! Can't wait to see what you do with it.

I still haven't started on my project yet. I've got to get a couple of orders out of the way first.
Yeah My Sweety is ooober talented with the cutting and welding stuff. between the two of us I think we could put out some pretty interesting peices when she gets down here full time and we start merchanting. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Brandwyn »

Ringulf wrote:
Next step....GRINDING! Yay I love grinding! :mrgreen:

Better you than me, My Love! GRIN

(I hate grinding...especially overhead under the coolant tank in a rad area under an aircraft carrier... yeah that was my last serious grinding job... oh and did I mention it was using a big bayflex grinder? ... Bleh!)

As to the oxy-acetylene cutting I would be more than happy to share a few tips. I have been doing that as my day job for 15 years (well the last five not so much) and did far more cutting with that and a plasma torch than I have actually done welding metal together. I have even trained several apprentices here on how to cut metal.

I have noticed a few things that can help get a good cut with an oxy-acetylene torch:

1. Clean your tips - Extremely important! Make sure that not only the center hole is clean, but all the surrounding holes as well and then make sure that the end of the tip is clean of slag and other debris. Use a flat file to gently clean of the very end of the tip where the flame comes out. Use the LONG tip cleaners that go through the entire tip, not those that only go half-way. Your tip cleaner should be just slightly smaller than the hole you are cleaning and slide in and out fairly easily (otherwise if you use a large one you then file the holes bigger and change the diameter of the holes in the tip.)

2. Set the pressure correctly on your guages - most jobs can be done with it set on 60psi for the oxygen and 8 psi for the acetylene for jobs under 1 inch thick metal using tips 000, 00, and 0. Increase it to 9 and 70 psi for a #1 tip and one inch thick material to 1 and 1/2 inch thick. If you are doing 2 inch thick or more and want some more tips, send me a PM and I will get more detailed because things get trickier the thicker you go. I regularly cut 3 and 4 inch thick high carbon steel for holes in the flight deck and anchor chains: Pre-heating is key with thicker metals. Then set the pressure correctly on your torch after you light it. It should NOT roar. The sound should be like the wind blowing through the tree leaves, not like a tornado bearing down on you. Your cutting flame in the center (when you pull the trigger) should be 6-10 inches long if you have everything set correctly and a clean tip.

3. Use a hand rest - hold the torch body and trigger in your dominant hand. Make a fist with your off hand and rest the heel of that hand on a block of metal next to what you are going to cut. Lay the neck of the torch on the forefinger of your off-hand fist and use it as a pivot point while you are cutting. Test your hand positions before you start cutting but after you light the torch - this helps to pre-heat the metal - and adjust as needed to remain comfortable.

4. Clean and pre-heat your metal - make sure the piece you are cutting is not covered in paint, rust or oil or anything that interferes with the flame as you cut. The cleaner, the better. Make sure you have a line to follow that you can see with you burning goggles on (I use a number 5 burning lenz though the regs say to use an 8 or 10 and a 12 for plasma cutting.) Pre-heat your metal before you start cutting. Run the lit torch over it down the line and on each side of the line a couple of times. Run it on the back side too - depending on how thick it is. The thicker the metal the longer you need to pre-heat it. Do not get it Cherry Red unless you are blowing a hole (but that is a whole other tutorial - lol). It should be warm enough that when you pull the torch away and hold your hand over it you can feel the heat radiating up from the metal. If you get it too hot, the cut will melt right back together on you. If it is too cold your flame will jump around and sputter rather than cutting throught it. This is really just something you get the feel for over time.

Generally if you follow the above you will get pretty good results when cutting metal with Oxy-Acetylene. I could go into more detail, but I am sure I have bored you enough already. LOL

Good luck on your project Eric. I can't wait to see how it all turns out.

Now I am off to watch Ringulf do all that grinding...heh heh heh...
Brandwyn
"They are dangerous at both ends, and - crafty - in the middle." Sherlock Holmes, A Game of Shadows (Robert Downey Jr. in character on the subject of Horses)
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Brandwyn
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Re: New Axe/ Warhammer idea

Post by Brandwyn »

Oh yeah, my 'tricks' Ringulf was mentioning is pretty simple:

I insterted a 1/4 inch thick brass plate into the hole where the axe handle goes. Then I cut each curvey end starting at the sharpened end and working up to the middle until my flame just broke through to the axe handle hole.

I turned my pressure down just a bit on my guages and then quickly cut the straight part over the hole, flipped the head over and then cut the other side. I had to take out the brass piece before doing the second side however.

The flame won't cut through the brass so it acts as a barrier and kept from gouging into the metal on the other side of the axe handle hole.

(I also use the brass as a backing strap when doing vertical welding where there is a gap between the pieces being welded since the carbon steel won't stick to the brass.) So it comes in handy in more than one way!

I had a couple of wabbles in the cut on this project and it was certainly not the best cut I have ever done, but it didn't turn out too badly. I haven't cut anything by hand in quite a long time since I am doing union steward stuff mostly now so I was a bit wobbly and not entirely happy with it. But I guess that's okay since Ringulf likes grinding, right? hee hee hee

Thanks for the comments on the cutting job. I am looking forward to getting the tools so Ringulf and I can do some more stuff like this. I also want to learn more about forging. I nearly apprenticed to a smithy a few years ago, but we could never get our work schedules to mesh so he could train me. I still think it would be fun and want to learn the trade. Maybe one day...
Brandwyn
"They are dangerous at both ends, and - crafty - in the middle." Sherlock Holmes, A Game of Shadows (Robert Downey Jr. in character on the subject of Horses)
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