Middle Earth Ranger Forum

On midsummer eve, Elrond inspected the swords which Thorin and Gandalf had acquired from the Troll's Cave. The runes on Thorin's sword named it Orcrist, the Goblin-cleaver; the runes on Gandalf's sword read Glamdring, Foe-hammer - both were ancient blades forged in Gondolin.

"As the "mate" to King Turgon's sword Glamdring, Orcrist was likely borne by a high ranking lord in the King's entourage".

Ringulf wrote: Thus, Related, yet visually different, I don't think we have to have quite as tight a focus.... Vast is the world of Tolkien and the wonders there in!

Well said, friend Ringulf! I didn't like the way the wargs turned out in TTT and ROTK and look how they look in the Hobbit! So look at it this way, the way that Hollywood reboots films, you only have to wait 10 years for a new version!



Thank you! I am here all week

Ken

The fallacy here is basing the design on the name. If Orcrist, the "Goblin Cleaver" is a chopping weapon, then why is Glamdring, the "Foe Hammer" not a bludgeoning tool?

Brian

I could cleave a goblin or two with that. Hair splitting aside, I approve.

I think it's interesting how heated some people are getting about the design of this sword. I mean, I guess it makes sense, seeing as it's a very prominent weapon in the book (and therefore the film too), but overall I don't think there's anything truly shocking about it. Most of the Elven designs from the previous films were a bit odd if you think about it, and I think this one follows suit quite well. My only real complaint is that I don't care for the way the handle curves. It looks like it would feel clunky and unnatural in the hand. I sort of assumed it curved the opposite direction of the blade, like a Chinese broadsword, or some of the other single-edged Elven swords we've seen in the series. But it seems that the strange bow in the hilt actually runs the same direction as the blade, which in my opinion breaks the elegant, sweeping silhouette it ought to have. I felt the same way about the strange backwards-swept cross-guard on Faramir's sword in the Trilogy. It was completely impractical.

That being said, I still think it's a very attractive sword. Some things to keep in mind:
First off, while most races in Middle Earth seem to have been designed for the movies with at least some sort of historical culture in mind, the Elves don't really fit into anything - and I think that was the idea. They are a race entirely of their own, separate from any Human culture. Thus, the designs of their weapons don't really fit into any historical archetypes very well. In this way, Orcrist actually follows suit quite nicely.
Secondly, the Elves (or at least, individual elves, not counting the Elven hosts in the prologue and the Helm's Deep sequences) seemed quite enamored of using vastly different designs for swords, armor, etc. as opposed to the Human (and other) cultures, who all had some slight uniformity among their designs. Therefore, I don't see why a creative Elvish smith might not have decided to craft several different weapons into very different shapes, although making them together.

Anyway, those are just a few of my thoughts. Overall, I'm not going to get that riled up about it because I still think it's a lovely sword, no matter how well it "fits" with the others.

I just finished watching the 8th production video from the Hobbit, and there is a short scene showing legolas with a sword on his belt. The hilt of the sword is very Orcrist-ish, so it could be that he took it from Thorin and wore it for a while, or the elven swords in this film follow the same aesthetic.

Just watched it! And yep! He's definitely got Orcrist in that shot. Did anybody else notice that Lee Pace (Thranduil) was totally practicing choreography with Hadhafang?

If that is indeed Orcrist, it doesn't look quite as unwieldy when it isn't dwarf scale.

Jonathan B. wrote:See in and of it's self it's fine, but as Orcrist is the sister sword of Glamdring it should look atleast a little bit like Glamdring.

It kinda does... It looks like if Glamdring was cut in half down the center: one quillion, the true edge curved as though it was a double-edged leaf-blade, etc.

I think that it looks like Sting cut in half, like the two of them were an original set.

I agree, in fact I believe I heard someone make a case for that quite some time ago...

mcapanelli wrote:

Ringulf wrote:It is actually very much within the family stylistically of Sting, which I feel it is supposed to be more of a relation too.
I could see the Glamdring being a sister as in it may have been made by the same smith but it falls in line better with Sting for all that.

Do I like it? Well I am kinda on the fence still but it may grow on me, I am much more partial to Fili's twin seaxes myself!

Tolkien says himself that Orcrist and Glamdring were related, but makes no mention of sting beyond being a long dagger fit as a sword for a hobbit. Calling them "mates to the other" implies a symmetry of design. There's no mention of Sting having such relation to either weapon so for them to draw from sting is a little off base. The sword is also not in line with Lyons other designs of Elvish origin. It's clearly meant for a dwarf where it was never meant to be so in the books. If they gave Peter Lyons as much freedom as they did for LOTR then I'm going to have to conclude he just dropped the ball on this one.

Well the above statements both seem logical except now we have all the little nuiances in the story and the acting of the way Gandalf found sting under the rubble and gave it to Bilbo (whch was in the book but was acted in such a way that you could see how it was overlooked by all the others.) Then all the sideways glances at sting as Elrond was clarifying the other swords origins. The fact that Balin makes a joke about it's being a letter opener makes you realise Jackson is going for the tongue in cheek reversal.
That style of leaf bladed weapon has become very iconically "Elven", but beyond the fact that Orcrist is a chopping type weapon, it does not lack any manner of fluidic elven type design and in no way looks Dwarven to me.
The fluidity and rounded style is very much looks like something an elf would make for the purpose of doing what it's name suggests, (with elves form does not follow function as much as art) for the same task I believe a Dwarven weapon would have looked like a larger version of Fili's twin blades. Very angular, lots of corners and points.
Unless as we said it was made for a Dwarf by an Elf I would now have to say that I really get the feel of Orcrist and sting haveing been part of a set or at least PJ wants us to feel they are.

My main objection to this Orcrist is the lack of jewels on the hilt.
Perhaps I missed them, but I do remember Tolkien going into detail regarding how Orcrist and Glamdring are both jeweled swords.

They ARE supposed to be jeweled...but bling like that looks too Conan for modern audiences. It would've made it feel less real to audiences if they had been blinged out like a production Masonic sword of today. My two cents.

Except for Aragorn's ranger sword in LotR, I've actually hated every blade in the series. I know I'm alone but, dang it, they don't fit an of the descriptions to me at all.

Meh.