How to throw a tomahawk. For Beginners.

[Le-Loup]

Part One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSOE-_AHOLE

Part Two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkKtMGHks2Y

Tomahawks were in fact just belt axes of the period & were in use before the 18th century. They were also the (Trade) axe of the period, & similar types were made through out Europe.

[Peter Remling]

Very nice and easy to follow, thanks !

[Ringulf]

Absolutly love it! Thank you good Sir for sharing with us!!

[Manveruon]

Thanks for the video!

As a beginner, the only other thing I think might have been nice to see in the video is a little more information on how to hold the tomahawk, what sort of arm motion you would want to strive for, and maybe when to release. I found, when I first tried it out, that I had difficulty because I always sort of wanted to throw it slightly side-armed, which made the axe spin in a bizarre direction. It wasn't until someone showed me how to just sort of swing my arm like a pendulum that I finally started making throws.

Of course, I haven't really done it in years, but it's something I'd like to do more of in future, and I thought this was a great basic guide on how to get started.

[Le-Loup]

Thanks for the video!

As a beginner, the only other thing I think might have been nice to see in the video is a little more information on how to hold the tomahawk, what sort of arm motion you would want to strive for, and maybe when to release. I found, when I first tried it out, that I had difficulty because I always sort of wanted to throw it slightly side-armed, which made the axe spin in a bizarre direction. It wasn't until someone showed me how to just sort of swing my arm like a pendulum that I finally started making throws.

Of course, I haven't really done it in years, but it's something I'd like to do more of in future, and I thought this was a great basic guide on how to get started.

Good comment, & thanks for this suggestion & feedback. I totally agree, I should have done that. I may have to make another one!
Regards, Keith.

[Le-Loup]

Thanks Peter & Ringulf, much appreciated. I think perhaps Manveruon has made a fair comment though. On the weekend I was teaching two of my young nephews how to throw a tomahawk, which I did, but the youngest one did what Manveruon said, he tended to sweep to one side instead of his arm going straight over the shoulder. However, he did hit the target, & it did stick in.

I was teaching a young man many years ago who had poor coordination. His Father was a Scout leader & brought him to me. He threw the tomahawk sideways, helicopter fashion, but he did hit the target, & it did stick in. I told him that was fine. He could throw the tomahawk. So long as it hits the target & sticks in, I don't care how they do it. I will persist for a while to correct any wrong posture, but if I cant do that, then I just concentrate on them hitting the target, & then sticking it in.
Thank you for your feedback gentlemen.
Regards, Keith.

[Mirimaran]

Thanks for posting, Keith! I had mine out last week but didn't get much throwing done. I will have to practice now!

Ken

[Le-Loup]

You are welcome Mirimaran, glad you liked it.
Keith.

[Avery P.]

Keith, since you and I have had little dealings with each other here I've been going back and forth about how to reply without sounding like an ass. I will do my best and please bear with me and understand I'm trying not to nit-pick. First off, here are a few of videos I did on throwing, I think you'll find we have a lot in common.

Part one for beginners - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLT4tSLU9G0

Part two - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW4DwRC2 ... 3F&index=1

In these two I focus a lot on the technical aspect, a lot like you did. Explaining rotation and paces. I think we agree on a lot of the basics, but where I have to disagree is the part about handle length being equal to forearm length.

Whoever started that nonsense, which goes way back, deserves to be punched squarely in the nose. It is simply not true and limits people after they cut the handle off. You can always judge distance and choke up on the handle, but once you cut it off you can't choke down. I use 19" handles as a standard here in the U.S. Every competition I've ever been in requires a minimum of five paces from the target and sometimes restrict it to five paces. By that I mean the five pace line can't be crossed or stepped over, which is why this type of throw is used sometimes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2jSYQwI ... A505D2EA3F

But I digress, I realize your effort was done for beginners and see no need to go off topic. Except to say this; shortening the handle to use in conjucton with a knife isn't unheard of, I've been in rendevouz competitions where it is required. Thing is, the line is set by the length of the knife, not the hawk. I'm not trying to say this is universal, by no means. In fact I would love to travel to Oz and see how I stack up with you fellas. What I am saying is it's better to give yourself a pace between throws to get a better aquisition of your target,IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1BLn735RQM


Now, onto the next point, and again please don't take offense.

First, I was glad to see you mention that the trees you were throwing into were dead. It bothers me seeing anyone throwing into a live tree, even in winter when the sap is low. I thank you for perpetuating respect for living trees.
The force needed to put into a throw isn't as much as you stated in my humble opinion. I agree that if you see someone reloading it makes for a good distraction technique, and won't even argue the whole "throwing your weapon away". When it's a last ditch effort, you do what you have to do. The gruesome truth in flesh is that it doesn't take a whole helluva lot to split a skull or a bone cage. How do I know this? I wont apologize for this, I have every group of students I teach to axe fight/throw practice on a pigs carcass. They need to see how fragile a mans body is and a pig is the closest thing. For throwing competitions I hold, the targets are soaked overnight in water. The harder a person throws the less accurate they are and everyone has to find that balance. With a water soaked target, they have to throw at least 3 times as hard as they did with the carcass and have the same accuarcy.


On the whole, I want to thank you for taking the time to do a video, I know first hand the effort and time it consumes. I also want to thank you for trying to keep the tradition alive and sincerely hope I haven't offended you. We all throw diferently and the competitions you folks have down there may be completely different than up here.

[Le-Loup]

Well Avery, that is an interesting reply, & I will answer it as best I can.
Firstly I seem to recall I did mention how the short handle came into use, & I did say that I used a longer handle. So I don't really see the point in your comment there.
The other point that needs answering is the effort or power put into throwing. That too I did explain, & as far as your pig goes, may I suggest you try dressing your pig in shirt, weskit, & coat & see how much damage your blade does to the body then. I very much doubt your throw would even penetrate the winter clothing of French Malice.

I am not in competition with anyone here, & as I also explained there is not necessarily a right or wrong way to throw a tomahawk so long as it hits the target & sticks in.
Your comment about the eye of a tomahawk is not totally correct. There are two types of this type of fitting on trade axes, which is what the tomahawk is. There is a round eye, & an oval eye. Either are good, & neither requires a wedge to secure the handle.
When you throw you are just pitching & you are not moving your feet. This too I mention in the video. But you are pitching for competition, not throwing for living history purposes. If a person is on the move, he/she can not afford to stop & judge the distance, they need to throw whilst on the move, hence the step forward. When I am practicing, I do not ever stop moving. I move toward the target & throw when I judge the distance to be right, I still keep moving toward the target, retrieve my axe on the way past & go round in a circle again for the next throw.
Your stepping method may work for competition, but it does not work for combat throwing, because you are on the wrong leg. You need to put the power in from the shoulder, just like throwing a good punch.
Your safety talk is a good one, & perhaps I should have done the same, but I was instructing from a living history point of view & using a tree, you are instructing from a controlled competition point of view & using a target block. Your points are excellent if using a target block & I think members on this forum should take note of that.
In your next video you are throwing the tomahawk backward. I can do this too, but it has no place in living history. You also stress "pacing" the distance. This I also explained, I do not pace the distance, I judge the distance. In real life situations or living history scenarios you are not given the luxury of pacing, you have to judge as best you can with each different situation & throw. Sometimes I am throwing from roughly 13 paces, sometimes from 25 paces, but these paces are judged, not stepped out. Also we train with full equipment on our backs, this makes a big difference to how you throw.
So basically I have no argument with your method of competition throwing Avery. Well done.
In this following scene you will see that the tomahawk is powered by the shoulder, & you will also see that the second throw is done on the move. This of course is only a movie, but, Mel Gibson was taught how to throw a tomahawk by an 18th century living historian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLbIKgEj1VY

This one is just me throwing. This was taken just before my hip replacement so I am not moving as well as I would like. Now I have a Brown Bess bayonet forge welded to a small cannon ball & settled in a Chinese trade ceramic tea bowl inserted in place of my hip!!! Now I have to lose all that weight I put on not being able to walk properly for a couple of years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E18juRVmy_k


Ork or an 18th century character, we throw to kill.
Regards, Keith.

[Avery P.]

Keith,I want to stress that I'm not picking a fight here, but there are a couple of things I think need to be addressed in your response. I'm looking at this as a "lively" debate and hope you are as well.

Here is my first rebuttal

Firstly I seem to recall I did mention how the short handle came into use

Yes you did, in your video you said
"the correct length for a handle if your throwing in a competition is usually gauged to be between from the point of your elbow to the top of your fist. The reason for that is that some people like to use throwing knives as well. And they try to match the length of the throwing knife to the length of the helve on the tomahawk so they can both be thrown from the same distance. Other than that, there is really no rule about length of helve."

Again, I have to disagree and do so with a point, no pun intended. If you have an axe and a knife that are the same length, you will never be able to stick both without either choking up on the axe handle, using your finger on the spine on the axe handle or choking way down on the knife handle. Let's think about this for a minute. If you have a hawk handle of 18 inches and a knife with an over all length of 18", if the axe hits, the knife will have under rotated when it strikes the target unless you step back or do as I mentioned above. It's simply a waste to cut your handle off, and in every competition I've been in limits how close you can be to the target, not how far back you want to stand.
Granted, you're down under so they may be different, if so I wouldn't mind seeing a link or two on the competitions are done, I may get a few ideas from them.

The other point that needs answering is the effort or power put into throwing. That too I did explain, & as far as your pig goes, may I suggest you try dressing your pig in shirt, weskit, & coat & see how much damage your blade does to the body then. I very much doubt your throw would even penetrate the winter clothing of French Malice.

Done and done. We've even gone as far as chain mail to illustrate the point that even if you don't penetrate, the internal damage is enough to cause internal bleeding, bone breakage and hemorrhaging. I also showed how the fabric of a period correct redcoat can travel into the body and cause severe infection. Will the blade penetrate enough to cause a deep wound, no. Will that wound result in infection, yes.

Your stepping method may work for competition, but it does not work for combat throwing, because you are on the wrong leg. You need to put the power in from the shoulder, just like throwing a good punch.

Ummmm,I've boxed, amoung other arts, for years. I have seen first hand the knock out power of a punch thrown in an off body stance. That is why I teach the basic three stances. Kniowing these stances and how to use them gives someone more versatility on the run, it doesn't limit them. On this, I would humbly ask if you've ever spoken to anyone about combat throwing who is actively serving. I have spoke with instructors at length about what and how they teach, and have no issues whatsoever about giving you some contact info.

As for what you see in the movies, I agree they're just movies and should not be used as a reference.

Again, I sincerely hope you don't take offense to this or feel that I'm attacking you. If, however, you do, well let's talk about it and hopefully those who read it can learn a bit more about different styles.

[Le-Loup]

Mate I see no point in debating the different methods & reasons, you have your way & ideas, & I have mine. As far as the handle length is concerned, I am just telling it like it is. I said that was the reason, & it was. If it does not work for you, fine, but that is the way they do it at Rendezvous in Victoria. The handle length does not matter as far as I can see, like I said, I don't pace it out, I judge it & throw. If that does not work for you, then don't do it. Simple.

You seem to have forgotten my talk on head weight. You have a heavy axe head, mine weighs just 1 lb. I said, if you have a heavy axe, you can just pitch it, that is what you do. We do not carry heavy axes for obvious reason, so we need to use more power. There is no point you keep telling me what you do mate, I did not start this discussion, you did. I think there is no more to be said, just simply no point. We are talking different points of view here. You will not convince me to carry a heavier headed axe or to pitch my tomahawk at Orks. I prefer overkill, it always works.
Good luck.
Keith.