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Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:55 pm
by Eärendur
Ok, not sure if this belongs here or in one of the more practical sub-forums, but here goes.
The rangers were the descendants of the ancient sea-kings, and ships and shipbuilding was part of their cultural heritage. In FOTR, Strider is one of the ones in the company who is expert at handling boats - indicating prior experience. Now this experience may have been on the Anduin, or in Gondor; however even in the Arnor area there are several rivers, as well as lake Evendim. I think it is reasonable to think that the Rangers used small boats from time to time. The question is, what were they like?
Like many other things, I suppose Numenorean boatcraft had its roots in elven craft, and that the rangers would have continued to be influenced by the elves of Rivendell. On this line of thought, I was trying to remember the descriptions of the Lorien craft from FOTR, unfortunately I don't have my copy of the book with me. I do remember that I always image the boats as looking different than in the movie (if you don't recall what they look like, they are based on John Howe's painting:
http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gall ... age_id=115 and look like this:
http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/Elf ... i_boat.jpg)
One could approach it from the other side as well; I suppose Buckland watercraft were based on Numenorean craft during the successful days of Arnor, so if there are any descriptions of these, it may lend to a better understanding of ranger craft.
Why bring all this up? Well, I am moving in a few weeks, and it is a distinct possibility I could be living on or very close to an inland lake bordered by state land - perfect for rangering. I don't want to get a boat or canoe made of aluminum (ugh), and after some research I believe that one of the more simple boat designs would be completely within my capabilities to build. The question is, what sort of shape?
Of course, the simplest rout would be along these lines:
http://flatbottomcanoe.com/
But that is rather ugly to me, and I think I could do a bit more complex than that.
There is also the option to go the cedar strip rout:
http://www.canoe-suwannee.com/cedar_strip_canoe.htm
Very very nice looking, but I don't want to spend a year doing this, and I don't want to spend copious amounts of money.
So I've been looking at the sort of designs shown on this page:
http://www.makeacanoe.com/opencanoes15to17.htm
Which leads to the question, what sort of craft would a ranger use? Not being a person who knows a lot about boats, I have trouble distinguishing much difference between many of the different craft on that page to determine what is most appropriate.
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:19 pm
by Peter Remling
If the ranger is trying to be undetected and needs to make a boat in a short time, my thought is a coracle.
It's a small 1/2 sphere boat made with a wood frame and hide or bark covering.
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:43 am
by caedmon
Hmmm, I like the possibilities. My preference would be to something like the Beaver
http://www.makeacanoe.com/opencanoes15to17.htm#BEAVER. But what would the Dunedain be in? Buckland boats feel like they should be rustic English rowboats.
I know that the Dunedain had connections with that Eldar, but after reading the Children of Hurin, I am struck by how little the Elves share. Even with Elrond being halv-elven, and the Dunedain being 'country cousins', I think that most high culture was passed on grudgingly.
Numenorean ships, I always felt would be more earthy (and larger) relatives of the elven swan ships, which are most often shown as clinker built (ala Viking longboats).
But what about 3500 years after the drowning of Numenor, and a 1400 after the fall of the Northern kingdom? Well... I see small ships for lake travel, fishing and the like, and canoe-ish boats for rivers and portaging. Mostly clinker built.
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:45 am
by caedmon
I looked up the stitch and tape construction used on the boats Eärendur posted and was surprised to see that similar techniques do go back to the Neolithic (sans fiberglass). Which brings to mind Udwin's idea of LOTR as a Mythic-Neolithic remembering...
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:03 am
by Straelbora
Of course, the simplest rout would be along these lines:
http://flatbottomcanoe.com/
But that is rather ugly to me, and I think I could do a bit more complex than that.
I built one of these. I had a full wood shop at my disposal, as well as the help of a professional fabricator. They sell it as a 'weekend project,' which is total Oliphaunt caca. It took weeks to finish, and the marine plywood had to be coated in fiberglas in order to really make it seaworthy. It turned out to be fragile, ungainly, hard to transport and could only carry about 250 lbs (if you're a skinny person with gear, that adds up fast. If you're built like me, no gear). In retrospect, I wish I would have just bought a plastic kayak. I ended up giving it away to someone who lived on a small lake.
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:04 am
by Eärendur
Interesting....
Has anyone ever made a bark-craft before? I've read about it numerous times, and somehow I always thought it would be impossibly hard; yet it was certainly done by many people for many years, so it's not quantum physics
. I do like the coracle idea, though I don't suppose you could carry all that much in the way of supplies in one?
Good thoughts on Numenorean history, this period is an extremely long time after the greatness of Numenor or even Arnor.
I did see the note on the stitch and tape being similar to a more ancient craft, though I didn't pursue the link at the time. I'll have to read up on that.
Straelbora, that's very interesting. I'm not terribly surprised they would over-hype their plans... the site setup is close to the model of those sites that sell ebooks of questionable truth and usefulness (like the ones that teach you how to build your own solar panels that won't be UL approved and could burn down your house if you make a mistake soldering).
Did the plans use the stitch-and tape method, or something different? And when you said it took a few weeks, what sort of problems did you run into? I know often the first time I do something takes way longer than subsequent attempts; did they perhaps base their time estimate on someone who had done it a few times, or was there something more inherent to the process that dragged it out?
Another idea I came across, which certainly would be valid for ME as it has been found all over the world here is the dugout canoe, like this one:
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/Makin ... anoe2.html I read that the indians would sink them by filling them with rocks to protect them during the winter, and then would bring them back up in the spring - a very effective way to hide a craft from the use of prowling orcs.
There was also this document I came across when looking for descriptions of elven boats:
http://jordanboats.co.uk/JB/IainO_Catal ... 0Elfyn.pdf
which is about the Norwegian Faering, a type of boat that has been in use for many years.
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:10 am
by Straelbora
Eärendur wrote:Interesting....
Has anyone ever made a bark-craft before? I've read about it numerous times, and somehow I always thought it would be impossibly hard; yet it was certainly done by many people for many years, so it's not quantum physics
. I do like the coracle idea, though I don't suppose you could carry all that much in the way of supplies in one?
Hunter/gatherer and even people like Great Lakes Native Americans when the Europeans showed up actually had a lot of free time, and if it took them a season to make a birchbark canoe, that's how long it took.
Straelbora, that's very interesting. I'm not terribly surprised they would over-hype their plans... the site setup is close to the model of those sites that sell ebooks of questionable truth and usefulness (like the ones that teach you how to build your own solar panels that won't be UL approved and could burn down your house if you make a mistake soldering).
Did the plans use the stitch-and tape method, or something different? And when you said it took a few weeks, what sort of problems did you run into? I know often the first time I do something takes way longer than subsequent attempts; did they perhaps base their time estimate on someone who had done it a few times, or was there something more inherent to the process that dragged it out
They used copper nails and glue. I have pretty decent woodworking skills, and as I said, I had the help of someone who built professional displays for things like the Detroit auto show. Even with the shop and help, it just seemed to delay at every level. To begin with- marine plywood comes in sheets smaller than required for the boat (maybe if you live in certain coastal communities, you can get the longer pieces). So, if you can get the long piece, unless you've got a flatbed truck or a large trailer, how do you get it to your shop? And if not, you have to figure out how to join two pieces (per side) so that they will be waterproof. It went on and on- some of the cuts took pretty precision skills that are certainly outside of the skill set of the normal 'weekend project' type.
Another idea I came across, which certainly would be valid for ME as it has been found all over the world here is the dugout canoe, like this one:
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/Makin ... anoe2.html I read that the indians would sink them by filling them with rocks to protect them during the winter, and then would bring them back up in the spring - a very effective way to hide a craft from the use of prowling orcs.
There was also this document I came across when looking for descriptions of elven boats:
http://jordanboats.co.uk/JB/IainO_Catal ... 0Elfyn.pdf
which is about the Norwegian Faering, a type of boat that has been in use for many years.
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:28 pm
by Ringulf
OK I could easily get swept away with this post having been in the marine industry for many years BUT, I like the idea of the beaver, the lapstrake, tac and tape vessels look and feel more like what might have existed (albiet with the modern building metheods) however the lapstrake, tac and tape or stich and glue (if you want to further the building possibilities along the same line), is very close to the metheods employed by the norse to build their boats. A small Faering or even a Dory or Peapod might be a great ranger small craft.
I built a Railbird Skiff back in the day that looked very much like a long flat bottomed version of the FOTR Lorien vessels.
For my money a decked sailing canoe such as would have been used buy the Humber canoe club in England and the US and sailed around the late 1800's would be my choice for a personal ranger craft. Ian Oautred (sp) created a stitch and glue version of a one man or two man type called the "MacGregor" and the Wee Rob based on the famous Rob Roy decked sailing canoe. These small vessels could go amazingly long distances and could be sailed, rowed or paddled by one man or two with just the right amount of gear for a solo or team ranger expedition, (ooh I feel a story coming on!)
This is a link to the page that describes the MacGregor, Wee Rob being kinda small for a ranger team. I have not built this one myself though I have had a hand in helping make a few and I have sailed several up at the Wooden Boat School in Maine. The yawl rig with its ancient lug sail design is right up the alley of a ancient mariner culture and is both easy and practical for reasons I won't go into here. But yup this would be the riversteed of the Northern ranger if I had anything to do with it! (of course we must put a dragon head and tail on the prow and stern posts Hee hee...no really)
http://www.sailing-new-england.com/macg ... canoe.html
PS do not neglect to follow the links to downloads and such MacGregor's memoirs in 1000 miles in the Rob Roy is true searangering at it's best!
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:12 am
by Udwin
Peter Remling wrote:
If the ranger is trying to be undetected and needs to make a boat in a short time, my thought is a coracle.
It's a small 1/2 sphere boat made with a wood frame and hide or bark covering.
Yes! 'Bull boats' definitely came to mind. They've been used by traditional societies on both sides of the Atlantic--the Mandan whom the Corps of Discovery stayed with had them (evidence of pre-columbian Welsh influence, some suggest). PJ had his proto-Stoors use them:
I don't think there'd be anything wrong with a Ranger (especially a northern, shire-adjacent one) using a coracle, but they do feel distinctly 'hobbity' in my mind (thanks a lot, PJ
)
I'm not sure what Numenor-influenced boats would look like. The answer probably depends on how 'advanced' one's vision of Westernesse is--remember, in
The Lost Road, Ar-Pharazon sailed with engine-powered iron battleships.
If (as I've suggested) Numenor was a mother-culture to coastal Europe (and if we take the less-fantastic route), this Minoan craft could give us an idea.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... n_ship.jpg
caedmon wrote:I looked up the stitch and tape construction used on the boats Eärendur posted and was surprised to see that similar techniques do go back to the Neolithic (sans fiberglass). Which brings to mind Udwin's idea of LOTR as a Mythic-Neolithic remembering...
Speaking of which, check this video out. It's not quite Neolithic--only Bronze Age--but definitely interesting to see an Old boat design reconstructed with period materials.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22chM3wYrk0
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:14 pm
by Greg
I believe that the best modern correlation to the Lorien "Loaner boats" would be a canoe, and I'm actually rather enamored with the John Howe version they used in the films. The construction makes sense, and the description of how they were propelled (if my memory serves) most closely lines up with paddling. Heaven knows there were no double-bladed paddles, so that rules out anything but canoe-type paddles.
I fully support the beaver-styled vessel as numenorean, but I'm not sold on Aragorn having knowledge/skills in the art of using one...I get the feeling that by this point, the skills there would be lost, like some much already had been, and Aragorn's lack of extensive experience on the water (and without a living father to teach him when he was old enough) suggests to me that he could be a solid "boater" without possessing Numenorean skill levels.
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:49 am
by Ringulf
The movie boats, though quite lovely, are much bigger and heftier(not longer) in thier scantlings than a canoe, though I imagine that "Elvin" construction techniques could make their heavier construction as light as a standard canoe would be. As it is they are much more like a maine peapod or double ended wherry. a fine small boat but not made with the exact same purpose or mission as a canoe.
The books as opposed to the movies may have leant themselves to a smaller lighter craft in their interpretation.
The double bladed paddle cannot in my mind be summarily dismissed so easily. The Lossath who were based somwhat on a mix of the Inuit and Sami peoples had marine technology that would have most likely have been based on these cultures as well, most likely employing the same system of locomotion. (especially when being propelled by a solo traveller)
Understandably much of the Lossath and Umli culture I know of is based on ansillary sources such as MERP and Lotro, however Tolkien did base his world on historical models and a double bladed paddle would be no more of a stretch than Lamelar or scale armor, or even the use of the dreaded cotton plant.
The use of double paddles by the fellowship of course I fully agree with, as I also agree with Greg's obsevations on the maritime skills of a sea peoples now pretty much landlocked for centuries with nothing but lakes and rivers to traverse. (a very different set of skills though many are still simular.) The diversity of Middle earth, and it's people and cultures could never have been fully explored by Tolkiens written works alone so I believe it is quite valid to realize that many things could have existed outside the scope of what was written. (Ferrets in Bree would be an example)
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:15 am
by Eledhwen
I love canoes, for hunting and just river trekking in general. I've been working on learning how to build strip wood canoes...and I admit the thought has been in my mind that I might be able to contrive something that would seem to have Elvish influences...at least to me.
All just paper designing currently but the studies in the methods of this sort of watercraft construction lead me to think I can manage at least something I can use and even portage without too much trouble.
Ever learning, ever exploring. Keeps my mind active and 'young'.
Eledhwen
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:25 pm
by BrianGrubbs
Greg wrote:
I fully support the beaver-styled vessel as numenorean, but I'm not sold on Aragorn having knowledge/skills in the art of using one...I get the feeling that by this point, the skills there would be lost, like some much already had been, and Aragorn's lack of extensive experience on the water (and without a living father to teach him when he was old enough) suggests to me that he could be a solid "boater" without possessing Numenorean skill levels.
Let us not forget Aragorn's time as Thorongil, serving with the armies of Gondor. Gondor was still very much a sea faring nation even at this late time, and Aragorn led a squadron of ships to assault the corsairs of Umbar. Also, while he might not have had a living father to teach him, he did have decades of experience fighting with, and learning from, all the major powers in Middle Earth.
Brian
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:20 pm
by caedmon
BrianGrubbs wrote:Greg wrote:
I fully support the beaver-styled vessel as numenorean, but I'm not sold on Aragorn having knowledge/skills in the art of using one...I get the feeling that by this point, the skills there would be lost, like some much already had been, and Aragorn's lack of extensive experience on the water (and without a living father to teach him when he was old enough) suggests to me that he could be a solid "boater" without possessing Numenorean skill levels.
Let us not forget Aragorn's time as Thorongil, serving with the armies of Gondor. Gondor was still very much a sea faring nation even at this late time, and Aragorn led a squadron of ships to assault the corsairs of Umbar. Also, while he might not have had a living father to teach him, he did have decades of experience fighting with, and learning from, all the major powers in Middle Earth.
Brian
While This does go to show that Aragorn was uber-awesome, I think it's a bad idea to make apriori assumptions that his experience is typical, even for a ranger. After all he was the Chieftain, raised by elves, better traveled than even most rangers, in his 80's, and destined to be both King and the sole human to marry an elf since the first age.
Re: Ranger Boats and Watercraft
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:13 pm
by Peter Remling
Back on the coracle: By making a frame from light branches and covering it with waterproofed canvas, you can make one of these cheaply and relatively quickly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2WJeuA_iKY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvD241FkRrI
The first video is a short how to build.
The second is waterproofing canvas.
By combining the two, you can build the frame, cover it with canvas, then waterproof the canvas.
The most time consuming item is waterproofing and letting it dry. The best things about these boats are anyone can make one, even from an old heavy cloak. They are very light and flipped over and painted they will resemble boulders. They can be made and stashed without anyone being the wiser.
