Sword scabbard suspension

[ineffableone]

So the scabbard building pdf thread made me think abut sword scabbard suspension a bit. There are a few different types and some minor variations on each theme.







DBK custom scabbards lists
http://www.dbkcustomswords.com/handmadescabbard.html
- Single-belt complex integral suspension harness - specify buckle or thong
- Single-belt "The Laird" double-spiral complex integral suspension harness
- Double-belt complex integral suspension harness
- Longsword (2-point) suspension harness
- Longsword (2.5-point) suspension harness
- Longsword (3-point) suspension harness
- Strap Bridge / Slider for early "Viking" type scabbards

Then of course there are baldrics and other methods.

So I was thinking, what folks think of these different types and which is their preferred? What do you feel are the benefits of one type of suspension over another?

Certainly some suspension methods just work better for specific types of swords and you really can't choose a different one due to that. I also remembered how in a video scholagladiatoria mentioned how many folks actually regularly carried their sword in their off hand rather than strapped on their hip. Making me think how carrying a sword on your hip likely got a bit annoying and how a lot of long sword's suspension does not give quick easy on off capabilities. In ranging I can say out in the woods there are definite times you want to be able to remove your sword to go through thick brush. Or it will hang up constantly.

My VA Malatesta has a 3 point suspension which looks nice. But rarely does it seem to need more than 2 points, one always seems slack. I am not really sure the 3 point system on it is really a functional system, though it might be just this version that is less than functional other 3 point systems might be better functional systems. Not to mention the belt on it is quite thin, making it a bit uncomfortable for long term wearing. I think a lot of thin belts have come out in production swords as a way to save a little on leather costs, and due to not many people actually wearing their swords. Though it is simple enough a system to take off on put on by just unbuckling the scabbard. But then you get the jingle of the buckles quite regularly.

While I don't own other swords with other suspension, I have owned others in the past and I have tested out some friends so have some experience with other types. So far my favorite is just the single belt integral style, for simplicity and ease of use. Unbuckling it, the belt stays with the scabbard and can be wrapped around it fairly easy for storage. Only one buckle to silence, unless you have a thong style (which i have not experienced but look interesting but sort of complex) then none. Generally a reasonably thick belt which makes for a more comfortable carry on your hip. I have not had a chance to try a double belt but could see it possibly a bit more comfortable carry.

I will likely be customizing my Malatesta scabbard at some point to be a single belt integral, or if I get enough fun money ordering one from DBK.

So what about you? What is your favorite suspension? What are your thoughts on different suspension systems?

[ineffableone]

BTW here is another good picture of different suspension systems from Lutel

[Greg]

I will never again hang a sword:

a) Vertically
b) from a steel ring, as in the first photo of your first post
c) from a single point of contact

Two-point harnesses, such as the drawings in the Lutel image, steady the blade dramatically. Frankly, I doubt many of the folks on here actually travel through the woods with a Longsword...it's just not practical. My shorter blades, which are still respectably arming sword length, are in two-point harnesses more commonly associated with Longswords, and I rarely deal with them "hanging up" on things. The trick is to not intentionally walk into a briar patch, really...
Plan your route ten feet/yards in advance, and you'll avoid 90% of these mishaps.

I didn't really like the single-belt integral I wore for a little while, on my buddy David's Coustille. I like my belt being firmly across my hips, straight across all the way around...didn't like the weird staggered shenanigans. But that's personal preference. I, ultimately, like the functionality of being able to unbuckle the scabbard from the belt without having to remove the belt...makes wearing pouches on that belt much more possible, if you're planning to remove the sword from your person when you reach camp. I wouldn't, personally, ever remove the entire sword to carry it in my off hand while on the move...that'd be just an around-the-camp or homestead kind of deal for me.

Two cents.

[Eledhwen]

I use a frog..I can loosen and slip the scabbarded sword out of the frog without disturbing the belt at all. Since I use shortswords like gladii and the leaf bladed types, vertical works just fine for me. I do have a 'longsword', the DelTin Glamdring, and I have worn it about at SCA events and whatnot mostly...I never had a problem with it hanging up and it used a double wrap sword belt. I simply don't like wearing lots of belts. LOL

I have used a baldric..and that isn't bad at all, really.

There will be wide variations based on individual tastes and preferences for blades. As there should be.

Eledhwen

[ineffableone]

The trick is to not intentionally walk into a briar patch, really...
Plan your route ten feet/yards in advance, and you'll avoid 90% of these mishaps.

But that is where all the yummy rabbits are hiding. Sometimes you have to go in there. And seriously some of those thick places are where you will find the best places to catch game, or forage for berries and other edibles.

I agree that 90% of the time I do plan my route ahead. But while out in the woods, following a game trail things can go from a well established trail to thick brush quickly. Your choices are turn around and back track or forge ahead through tight spaces.

I have found some amazing places in the woods by following game trails into place no one else goes. It can really be worth it.

I will never again hang a sword:

a) Vertically
b) from a steel ring, as in the first photo of your first post
c) from a single point of contact

Two-point harnesses, such as the drawings in the Lutel image, steady the blade dramatically. Frankly, I doubt many of the folks on here actually travel through the woods with a Longsword...it's just not practical.

Good to know about the troubles with those, though I would not likely opt for them nice to learn from others who have experience with them.

I tend toward bastard/hand and half swords. So slightly smaller than typical longswords. I have traveled into the wilderness in WA, OR, AZ, NJ, and PA with a sword. Though yes rarely with anything too large.

I didn't really like the single-belt integral I wore for a little while, on my buddy David's Coustille. I like my belt being firmly across my hips, straight across all the way around...didn't like the weird staggered shenanigans. But that's personal preference. I, ultimately, like the functionality of being able to unbuckle the scabbard from the belt without having to remove the belt...makes wearing pouches on that belt much more possible, if you're planning to remove the sword from your person when you reach camp. I wouldn't, personally, ever remove the entire sword to carry it in my off hand while on the move...that'd be just an around-the-camp or homestead kind of deal for me.

Two cents.

Hmm, good point about pouches etc on your belt. I might have to rethink the single integrated just for that reason, I love pockets and pouches, so could see this being an issue for me.

The whole off hand carry, I can actually see being used while trekking, as I have done it both with a jian and katana while trekking in the woods. It just ended up easier to carry the sword in hand rather than on my hip and I even often used the sheathed sword as a walking stick or to hold a branch out of my way. I had not thought of it much until I saw the video mention it. He seemed pretty confident that folks commonly carried their swords this way. Citing manuals discussing how to fight with the scabbard in your off hand etc.

[ineffableone]

I use a frog..I can loosen and slip the scabbarded sword out of the frog without disturbing the belt at all. Since I use shortswords like gladii and the leaf bladed types, vertical works just fine for me. I do have a 'longsword', the DelTin Glamdring, and I have worn it about at SCA events and whatnot mostly...I never had a problem with it hanging up and it used a double wrap sword belt. I simply don't like wearing lots of belts. LOL

I have used a baldric..and that isn't bad at all, really.

There will be wide variations based on individual tastes and preferences for blades. As there should be.

Eledhwen

Darn you small sword folks with easy vertical sheaths, baldrics, and such, so practical and functional.
Actually I eventually want a nice gladius or langseax, just a matter of money till I get one. I like plenty of the shorter sword types and see a lot of reasons to pick one up eventually.

I am not adverse to multiple belts as long as they don't get too complicated and intermingling mess.

[Rifter]

I generally go with F however I do have to tie the straps over the buckles to keep the buckle from coming undone when the blade is not in it

[E.MacKermak]

Something I round a few years ago. Haven't tried it.

[E.MacKermak]

Another one.

[Eledhwen]

It works fine; it is taken from medieval examples. The method of construction means the belt is just a sword belt since it has to be removed to remove the sword. I used it for a time with my DelTin. I just don't like lots of belts is all. Especially when having to relieve myself. Too many belts is too much trouble..and sometimes they would pinch, being made of stiff leather. Personal preference only. You might like it.

Eledhwen

[RikJohnson]

I've always been a fan of the 'straight down' system. It keeps the blade out-of-the-way though drawing is a bit slower.

I like having it at an angle with both rings on the upper edge of the scabbard but that is only good for open areas. Inside or in the brush, the scabbard knocks into EVERYTHING and everyone. Plus it takes a bit of fine tuning to get the angle right.

Baldrics are great for ease. You can remove them easily and quickly, then keep the belt free.
BUT, you cannot run with a baldric.

Over your back (ninja-style) is the only way to carry it over long distances, BUT, you cannot draw a blade over your back. Movies that do so (xena, any ninja film, etc) fake the draw or have aspecial scabbard that failos to protect the blade.

So there is no perfect way. Just options for different scneerios.

[Manveruon]

This is an extremely interesting thread for me, because I'm just about to start work on a scabbard with an integral harness system.

In the past, I have worn a sword two ways: a pirate cutlass on a baldric, and a replica of Strider's longsword via a 2-point suspension system (as was done in the films).

As for the 2-point harness on the longsword, I have found advantages and disadvantages. One of the advantages, as mentioned above, is that it's easy to simply unbuckle the scabbard from the two belt-straps when the sword is not needed, and just as easy to re-buckle it when you're ready to carry it again. Another is that one can easily adjust the straps on the belt to hang wherever one wishes them to - with the sword hung more on the side, or more towards the back, etc. This also means one can adjust how vertically or horizontally the sword hangs to a degree by moving these straps either closer together or farther apart on the belt.

However, there are also disadvantages. For one, in my experience it pretty much needs to be adjusted constantly. For another, the straps tug down on the belt, and pull everything somewhat awkwardly, again making constant adjustment necessary. Also, I find that this method just allows the sword to swing around an awful lot, which can cause problems for obvious reasons.

The baldric, on the other hand, is probably my favorite method of sword-conveyance. Mind you, the style I use (pictured below) is based loosely on 17th and 18th century suspension systems, and is therefore designed for a smaller sword, generally speaking, than what we tend to use as rangers, but I'm positive it would function well enough for an arming sword, or something of that nature.



This method hangs the sword at basically a perfect angle at all times, and is adjustable for ease of draw. It can also be strapped down with a belt so as to secure it more fully to the body. Also, it's remarkably easy to put on and take off. If one is not used to it, this method can cause a bit of strain on the shoulder, but I've found it easy to acclimate to.

That all being said, for my current project, I am planning on using the integral sword belt method shown in the first graphic E.MacKermak posted (in fact, I'm using that exact graphic as my tutorial). I've heard very good things about it, and I feel like there has to be a reason it was so widely used in the Middle Ages. Also, it happens that I actually really like wearing 2 belts at a time, so I feel like this should work well for me. While I admit that wearing two belts can definitely be a little more difficult when using the facilities, etc, I always feel more secure when actually moving around and doing stuff in garb when I've got two belts on (just a weird personal preference, I think), so having a thin belt as my sort of every-day-wear belt (which will hold pouches, etc), and another specifically devoted to my sword sounds like a pretty great system. It also seems to have been a common practice, historically speaking.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject. I can't wait to get started on the scabbard/suspension project!

[Rifter]

My swords are too long to do straight down, but depends on the kit. I generally prefer the F hanging method as mentioned earlier but...when it comes off and I'd have to move the scabbard can become a trip hazard if one is not cautious.

[theowl]

I've carried swords a lot of different ways and a baldric is my preferred method for pretty much every type. I made a "Ranger" baldric with integrated by-knife and straps for bedroll/whatever, and it works perfectly for carrying my longsword. It keeps it higher than hanging it off of a belt, which is good for rough terrain, and removes any issues with weighing my belt down. And if it's balanced properly, running isn't an issue.

[Mirimaran]

I'd love to see how you set that up! I have a similar baldric that I always thought would work like that.

Ken