Hithlain

[Stormraven]

I was wondering if anyone out there has given any thought to Hithlain, or Elven rope. It is described as tough, light, soft-feeling and grey. Even though it's not "historically accurate", I was wondering if we might be able to get away with nylon or polyester. Anyway, was wondering if anyone gave thought to this already. Would be good to have a good, all-purpose rope and I believe the Rangers would have sought out Hithlain if they could obtain it. Your thoughts please.

[RikJohnson]

it would have to be some soft synthetic. with the ends whipped to prefvent fraying.

Hemp, sisal, all the traditional fibers would be too harsh and rough to meet the description.
Cotton makes good ropem until it gets wet, then it sucks!!!!

I have some that feels and acts like Hithlain... but I made them into Japanese rope-manacles as a b-day present for a gf and cannoty find that cord anywhere!!!!

Now if we can only convince it to 'unknot' at command!

[Ringulf]

Actually, I have given some thought to the subject and in one of my previous professions, that of marine retail, I was able to deal with many different types of rope, line and cord.
3 strand Braided dacron seems to be the closest thing that I could find that matched the description.

Fist off the triple strand or tradition lay would look a bit more in period than the nylon core with the dacron sleeve on the outside called "double braid".

Secondly the dacron has a very soft plyable feel without feeling "Plastic like" and unlike nylon has very little appreciable stretch when under load.

Of course one could always use a Dacron doublebraid and just explain that the double braiding process is "Elven" and wondrous in nature!

[ineffableone]

You might want to consider or look at kevlar rope or maybe technora rope.

Kevlar line is a lot smaller than 550 cord and is tested to 200 lbs, technora almost the same size as 550 cord just a little smaller and is tested to 600 lbs. Both of these if in a larger sized rope would be a lot stronger than hemp or other materials but smooth and "soft" feeling. Though they don't come in grey that I know of, kevlar being a yellowish cream color and technora coming in a black in what I have seen.

I have some of both that I got from this site. http://gearward.com/

He was also thinking about offering Amsteel Blue, which has a test weight of 2,500lbs and about the same size as 550 cord. Though again not grey in color but a bright blue. Though I don't see it up on his site. He discussed it in a thread on another forum.

[Stormraven]

Found some of the double braid dacron on Ebay in 1/2" - has high weight limit, good price but it's white. Don't know how the dacron would take a black dye that might make it grey.

NEW 1/2" Double Braid Rope 8400Lbs BREAKING STRENGTH Manufactured in 2012

I looked at the rope on the other site ineffable one left. I did see black. It does look thin but strong so could pass the test. Would be nice to stick with the canon and find grey though. Any thoughts to the black dye being able to make the man-made material at least grey?

[Taurinor]

I know a lot of dyes don't stick well to artificial fibers - typically the color is put in during manufacturing. If you want to try, though, I would go with these guys: http://www.dharmatrading.com/dyes/idye- ... brics.html

From what I've read, most customers seem to think they know their stuff.

[ineffableone]

Dacron has a bit of stretch to it, not sure how good that would be. And it could make untying knots a huge pain.

[Ringulf]

From a nautical stand point it has very little and is favoured especially when wet for it's price. I am sure there are better high tech lines for climbing and such but the dacron will not be anything like nylon or poly prope, or for that maker natural fibers. I have stained white dacron and it took pretty well I just don't know how long it will set and what water will do to it. But you are correct a black dye will give it a grey cast. Be mindful of the dye itself you don't want to weaken the rope's properties for esthetics.

[ineffableone]

I looked at the rope on the other site ineffable one left. I did see black. It does look thin but strong so could pass the test. Would be nice to stick with the canon and find grey though. Any thoughts to the black dye being able to make the man-made material at least grey?

Part of my posting those, is showing how there are some amazing high strength cordage out there. If you took the technora and braided it into a little finger sized rope rather than the smaller than 550 cord, it would have amazing strength. The 550 cord size is already stronger than 550 cord by 50 lbs.

The Amsteel Blue is coming in at 2,500 lbs for similar size as 550 cord! Now that is some elvish type rope.

BTW while possibly a bit of a pain to do, but you could likely buy grey paracord, gut the inner strands and then thread the Amsteel Blue into the grey paracord sleeve.

One issue though with that, is paracord sized rope while less bulky and light it is a pain on your hands. Extremely difficult to grasp and climb with due to small diamiter, and will cut into your grip if pulling on it with any weight.

So something to consider is you still likely want some sort of thickness in diameter for functionality of the rope. You might want to go to Home Depot or Lowes and check out the different rope diameters to see what thickness feels good in the hand. And see how small you can get before it is too small to fit in the hand well.

[wulfgar]

Hemp rope that has been broken in and used a bit has a very soft feel to it, and could be dyed gray. It stinks though.

[Stormraven]

Thanks Taurinor. That dye does say it will work on nylons and polyesters. I like the silver grey. Now just to find a proper rope

[Greg]

I'll second Wulfgar...help rope can be quite soft, smooth, and supple.

As for making it untie itself...there's a knot for that.

I would cautiously warn against using glaringly obvious cordages like 550 paracord for things like this. Everyone here is welcome to practice Tolkien to whatever degree they wish, but I *WILL* say that carrying around grey paracord at even a Ren Faire will be asking for people, laymen and costumers alike, to point it out for what it is. If you wish to be seen as a part of a different world in its entirety, the fewer recognizable modern items the better. But don't let that stop you, if it's what works with your kit!

[Stormraven]

I agree with you Greg. I too felt sorta shameful for considering "man-made" rope but there seemed to not be an alternative to the Hithlain in natural - but I was wrong. It got me on a research kick and I thought about silk. Of course all I could find was this Japanese fetish rope which says it's silk but I suspect is satin. At last my search has paid off and I've found genuine, hand-braided silk rope at an affordable price - $1.50 per foot and it can be custom dyed. Now one can question whether the Elves used silk worms but I suspect that Tolkien might have alluded to the spiders in Mirkwood as a source for Hithlain - so while not 100% accurate, it might be the best we can get. Here's the link:

http://www.butterflyrope.com/

[ineffableone]

I agree with you Greg. I too felt sorta shameful for considering "man-made" rope but there seemed to not be an alternative to the Hithlain in natural - but I was wrong. It got me on a research kick and I thought about silk. Of course all I could find was this Japanese fetish rope which says it's silk but I suspect is satin. At last my search has paid off and I've found genuine, hand-braided silk rope at an affordable price - $1.50 per foot and it can be custom dyed. Now one can question whether the Elves used silk worms but I suspect that Tolkien might have alluded to the spiders in Mirkwood as a source for Hithlain - so while not 100% accurate, it might be the best we can get. Here's the link:

http://www.butterflyrope.com/

yep your best bet for good silk rope will be through shibari (rope bondage) sites.

BTW side note Shibari actually comes from a very unique martial art called Hojo-jutsu. It was originally a martial art designed for the "police" of Japan. Letting them arrest and detain people using rope as a defensive weapon and restraining device. I have seen some demonstrations of this martial art and it is very impressive. I think the Shaolin monks would have really approved of the nonlethal but effectiveness of this. It is still taught, but there are not that many instructors out there world wide, and then since your dealing with restraint you really want to make sure your teacher is reputable. Improper restraint can cause nerve damage or other serious issues.

[Ringulf]

That is also a good alternative for silk roping and of course that is a natural rope.
I understand and agree with Greg on not wanting to substitute high tech products for things we are trying to recreate, best to be simple in our character concepts and look for the more common approach rather than the epic items known only to heroes and non human technology, but as it has been said in many sources "Technology of a high enough level is easy to mistake for magic".

Since I know no way of finding or making Mithril or Hithlain or cloaks that make you disapear by Elven magic, and since my Palantiir is on the fritz, I may have to be satisfied with Stainles steel or platinum (if I can afford it) Dacron and Lamee (well maybe not lamee) and Look up the vast knowledge of the universe on the internet rather than comune with....