Tinware ?

[Peter Remling]

I know the subject of copper pots has been discussed but does anyone know in tin was mentioned in any of the Tolkien stories. The reason I ask is that tinware products are much less expensive than copper and seem to be offered in a much wider variety.

[mcapanelli]

You know I don't think any reference is made to tin in the books but don't quote me on that. I'll take a peek in the Silmarillion and see if they mention tin as being used for pots. I don't see why from a practical sense you couldn't use it anyway. Assuming their knowledge of metals followed ours then tin would have very much been in use in the age we're covering, referenced or not. I think the only advantage of copper would be that it'd hold up better outdoors, but I can't really say because all of my cooking is on my stove so take that with a grain of salt.

[Ringulf]

There may not be any direct references to tin itself, but multiple spots were the word "Tinker" is mentioned, and a Tinker is one who makes things from Tin.
Originally many toys were made of tin. (Dale had a remarkable toy market) Tinkers also have a reputation for being travelling peddlers. This is due to the way their wares were distributed. A tinker could be a peddler, but it was not always true that a peddler was a tinker. One is a craftsman the other a salesman.

In several supplimental materials it is suggested that the Dwarves of the House of Sindri (one of the seven Fathers whose people ended up mostly in the east around the Sea of Rhune, after many of them including thier king allied themselves with Sauron and his servents) After being sundered from the other houses and thier king fled to a hidden hold never to be heard from again, it was said that his people often went abroad as Tinkers and travelling merchants as they had no centralized hold. They traded mostly with the Easterlings and Dorwinians near Rhune but were known to be seen in mannish population centers such as Minas Tirith and Dale. I believe that the other Houses of Dwarves sometimes reffered to them as "Gutter Dwarves" as they had lost their identities and sense of racial pride.

So with the Dwarves degree of metal working skill coupled with these word etemologies I think it would be reasonable to assume that the cleverly made and diverse offerings of the Tinkers trade were in fact implied by Tolkien.

Least that's how I am rollin' with it!

[Greg]

I'd agree with Ringulf that you can justify it. A word of caution, though. Tin heats up extremely fast in a fire, even just on a small bed of coals, and can quickly burn the bottom of your meal. As soon as I am able, I'm moving on to copper. My tin is constantly getting dented and such, and at some point, it's going to just be demolished.

[E.MacKermak]

http://environment.about.com/od/healthe ... okware.htm

"Since copper can leak into food in large amounts when heated, the cooking surfaces are usually lined with tin or stainless steel."

You have to watch real copper pots as there is some risk in their use. My plan is to get a tin lined copper pot like this one:

http://www.crazycrow.com/mm5/merchant.m ... 20-300-000

Not completely right, but I think it is close enough.

[Kiriana]

I'd agree with Ringulf that you can justify it. A word of caution, though. Tin heats up extremely fast in a fire, even just on a small bed of coals, and can quickly burn the bottom of your meal. As soon as I am able, I'm moving on to copper. My tin is constantly getting dented and such, and at some point, it's going to just be demolished.

Tin or even aluminum pots you can't put too close to any fire really. They will always burn your food.. but a tin lined copper pot/pan will heat fast yes, but a bit more evenly.. you still don't want it really close to the heat source though.

[Ringulf]

I can attest to this! I got a nice little set of copper mugs that looked to be unlined. I had pictured them in one of my early posts, and I thought they looked super period. Well as is my habit, I used them a bit for a while to see if I liked them.

Possibly a mistake!

During the time I was using them (mostly for hot coffee) I had a rather explosive situation in my sleep that continued on and off for a day and a half before returning to normality

(sorry folks but that is the most civil way I could put it)

I would not include such information normally but as a warning to others who might try the same and end up with that or worse.

Take the example of Beethoven and his lead drinking cup!

We can be anacronistic and recreative but in the light of current scientific understanding, history is speckeled with incidents of self imposed danger because the people of the time knew no better.

[Eledhwen]

You simply have to be more careful; you can't get involved in other things as in a modern kitchen when using tin lined pots and pans in the wild. I use copper corn boilers lined with tin and they work fine. Haven't burned my food yet...just be careful of heating, take your time, should work fine.

OTOH, I use a cast iron folding frying pan for serious in the fire stuff. Insert stick into handle and there we go. RevWar stuff, I admit it...but well within the capabilities of Hobbits...or any of the other folk in Middle Earth really. The handle is a kind of socket and it folds into the pan when not in use.

Eledhwen

[kaelln]

Feh. I'll stick with stainless. Light, indestructable. I'll call it "mithril" if I have to justify it!

[Ringulf]

You know I have heard you folks mention corn boilers before and I must admit to my ignorance. I picture a cylindrical container that can hold one/several whole ears of corn. Anyone have a picture of one of these puppies?

For Christmas my son got me two pieces of cast iron cookware to add to my small travel sized skillet.

One was a small eared pot, with a lifting handle that hooks through the ears, and a really nice cast iron tea pot with an inner mesh basket that you can put loose leaf tea and coursely ground coffe into. I will show a picture along with the dreaded "Copper Cups of Digestive Distress"!


this is the cookware and cups and my Tifin box.


The cups, and as you can see, they are lined but I still got sick...


Hmmm this is odd I just took a second look at the cups and they are tin lined! so they should have been fine, perhaps they were not cleaned properly? Any suggestions?

[kaelln]

Ringulf, corn boilers are small pots typically used in various re-enactment groups. As I understand it, they are very popular with Civil War re-enacters. Here's a couple of links to folks that sell them, along with pictures:

http://westminsterforge.com/nestingsets.html
http://www.texassutler.com/products/corn-boiler

[Ringulf]

Thanks Kaelin!
I see now, I was not to far afield.
The stuff from Westminster Forge looks just like the three cups I have, certainly made the same way!

They are not inexpensive though, I must say!

I got mine at the thrift shop for .50 a piece!

(still to much to pay for what I got out of it!)

[jbook]

First on the subject of tin toys. From what I've read toys weren't really manufactured out of Tin till the mid-19th Century. From Colonial times on back to medieval times toys would have been made from wood and cloth. Now with the creative license here in the story of Dales toy manufacturing one can guess the made some pretty extravagant toys. But my personal conjecture is that tin toys would look to modern.

As far as cooking goes I am a huge fan of copper and have always used it in reenacting. Here is my set. The gentlemen who used to make these passed away a few years ago.


Here are some excellent pots and other items.
http://goosebay-workshops.com/POTS-KETTLES

[Kiriana]

The cups, and as you can see, they are lined but I still got sick...


Hmmm this is odd I just took a second look at the cups and they are tin lined! so they should have been fine, perhaps they were not cleaned properly? Any suggestions?

Actually yes.. usually you can find it at walmart or kmart in the cleaning sections.. it's called Cameo.. there are usually 2 types.. If you get the one for cleaning copper, brass etc.. it will definately remove alot of the stuff from the metal that doesn't come off with regular hand washing/dish washing.. it's a cleanser so use a damp rag and just put some of the powder on it and rub away..

After you have cleaned it and rinsed it.. then wash it as you would regular dishes with dishsoap and water and then towel dry.

It may not have been the inside of the cup that made you ill.. could have been where your lips touch the outter part of the lip when drinking. Normally it's ok but with copper and how it tarnishes.. you need to really clean it well.

OH and you can use the cleanser on the inside of the cup as well.. it will clean the tin just fine.. Then the only way to be sure that it is all cleaned.. is to test it with drinking water. If you still get sick.. it could be just that the cups just not lined really well.

[Eledhwen]

Another point: be sure to know where you get your tinware or tin-lined cookware. Some places use lead in their tin and that will make folk sick, some worse than others. Especially if the stuff comes from Asia. It costs more, but I have my stuff made here in the U.S. by known sutlers with good reputations.

When it comes to eating and health, cautious is better in my opinion.

Eledhwen