Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

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Iodo
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Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Iodo » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:59 pm

I've just been to my local fabric store, they had this cheep on clear out:

Image

I liked it so I bought it but I can't quite decide. It's 100% wool, about a third as thick as my boiled wool cloak and a very tight weave. The pattern is woven rather than printed. The color hasn't come out well in the picture but it's a dark muddy green and a lighter greenish brown, very similar to a natural dyed fabric

I guess the first question is can I even justify it's existence in middle earth?

If I can I'm thinking about what Nemo said about dwarves being a people who like to show off craftsmanship and working with fabric being a difficult skill to perfect, maybe a little of something like this might just say "look we can make stuff" without going over the top
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Elleth » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:58 pm

Well, the houndstooth weave is certainly old enough to be pre-medieval:
The oldest known occurrence of houndstooth is the Gerum Cloak[3], a garment uncovered in a Swedish peat bog, dated to between 360 and 100 BC.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houndstoo ... nd_history

https://historiska.se/upptack-historien ... msmanteln/

Whether a dwarf would weave or wear that particular pattern in those particular colors is I think pretty undocumentable either way.

My memory from An Unexpected Party is that dwarves (at least those that were driven from the Lonely Mountain and spread out across Eriador) had a thing for loud colors - but that's more a general impression than a documented reference. And either way, not something I think a fells-ward would choose.

Personally, I'd go for a dwarf showing off craftsmanship in weaving I'd go for more variation in texture than color, but again I think that's a very personal un-supportable instinct.
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Iodo » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:29 pm

Elleth wrote:Well, the houndstooth weave is certainly old enough to be pre-medieval:
The oldest known occurrence of houndstooth is the Gerum Cloak[3], a garment uncovered in a Swedish peat bog, dated to between 360 and 100 BC.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houndstoo ... nd_history

https://historiska.se/upptack-historien ... msmanteln/

No way! thanks for that, I had no idea when I pulled the bolt off the shelf, that it was a pattern so well documented in history :P

Elleth wrote:Personally, I'd go for a dwarf showing off craftsmanship in weaving I'd go for more variation in texture than color, but again I think that's a very personal un-supportable instinct.

when I saw it I just thought that it would show a slightly higher level of craftsmanship to have a few more patterned fabrics instead of plain broadcloth, since as a fells-ward I cant be going around in bright colors, if I want to add interest i'd have to do it in a different way, only now I research how it's made it's not that hard so I suppose it isn't much of a jump in skill from plain broadcloth, for now I'm not even sure what to make from it (if anything), here's the two ideas I had:

- another hood (I expect most Erebor dwarves have a few of those)
- A wool over tunic with short sleeves (same pattern as my summer kit one) to add another layer in the winter cold, then only the sleeves would be visible

I could make anything else if I have another idea :mrgreen:
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Elleth » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:40 pm

Offhand, I think an open-front, short sleeve tunic / long vest such as Ringulf has here might work:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3937&p=42447#p42447

Perhaps with tablet-woven trim rather than fur?
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Udwin » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:58 am

Wow, I had no idea houndstooth was such an old pattern! Very cool! As to whether it would be a good fit for dwarvish impression, I think it's fine, especially following Nemo's theory about craftsmanship. If you want to justify it, I have a theory myself that Dale, located on the River Running and kind of the highest-tech settlement in the region, would have had a lot of water-mills for things like fulling wool, making paper, grinding grain, etc. Perhaps that could account (after its reestablishment of course) for such a 'fancy' type of fabric?
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Elleth » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:47 pm

I think even the presence of mills needn't be a prerequisite - people have been playing with weaving patterns for a loooooooong time.
Well back into the weighted-warp loom era, certainly!

I was quite surprised digging into iron age stuff to see just how common things like twills, herringbones, and such were.
I still have too much a "1950's gramma" vibe from most patterned weaves to really like using them in reenactment garb, but I'll happily admit that's my own prejudiced eye, and I'm learning.
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Iodo » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:00 pm

Udwin wrote:As to whether it would be a good fit for dwarvish impression, I think it's fine, especially following Nemo's theory about craftsmanship. If you want to justify it, I have a theory myself that Dale, located on the River Running and kind of the highest-tech settlement in the region, would have had a lot of water-mills for things like fulling wool, making paper, grinding grain, etc. Perhaps that could account (after its reestablishment of course) for such a 'fancy' type of fabric?

Good thinking, Dale being the trading town that it is would probably have all kinds of fabrics

Elleth wrote:I still have too much a "1950's gramma" vibe from most patterned weaves to really like using them in reenactment garb, but I'll happily admit that's my own prejudiced eye, and I'm learning.

I think I have the same mental block, that's why I don't think I'd be able to use a large amount of it in my kit, but in small amounts I think it would be OK
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Aragorn: It's the beards.
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Darnokthemage » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:03 pm

As a fan of tolkiens drawings i would suggest that a pair of dwarven breeches would look fine in that wool!
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Iodo » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:51 pm

Darnokthemage wrote:As a fan of tolkiens drawings i would suggest that a pair of dwarven breeches would look fine in that wool!

Not a bad idea :P

the black trousers I have on in the last pic on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4006&hilit=scotland are actually single hose (kind of anyway) made from the same fabric as the tunic, maybe if I make the same pattern in this it would give me a harder wearing thicker version for winter?
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Iodo » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:49 pm

Over Christmas I finished this, it's taken me until now to get around to posting it:

Image

it's shorter than tunics normally are so I can wear it with everyday clothing as well, it's edged in thin wool broad-cloth (another attempt to avoid having linen for water to soak into), the embroidery is in blue because I wanted to use some brighter color

Image

when I'm in full kit the pattern is only visible on my arms so it's not to noticeable and it's a little thicker than my black one so it keeps wind/water out a little better

Image

and I have a matching hood in the works as well
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Peter Remling » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:00 pm

Very nice ! I like this piece a lot, great work !
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Iodo » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:23 pm

Peter Remling wrote:Very nice ! I like this piece a lot, great work !

Thanks so much :P
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby SierraStrider » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:28 am

Wow, that looks great, Iodo! The trim and embroidery are awesome. It fits super well with the rest of the kit.
Last edited by SierraStrider on Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Greg » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:03 am

Fantastic craftsmanship!
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??

Postby Iodo » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:44 am

Thank you both :P
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.

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