Torches and light sources
- Turgolanas
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Torches and light sources
I ran across some dnd weight comparisons today, and that got me thinking: what would rangers use for light sources at night, and how would they carry them? I have made some crude torches before, but they all involved some form of oil soaked cloth around a good branch, and I imagine those would be messy to carry. Lanterns or lamps might work as well if they were tough enough. Also, would rangers have carried pre made torches, or would they have made them when necessary?
- Iodo
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Re: Torches and light sources
I've thought about this on a number of occasions, torches are very heavy to carry and they don't burn for very long, oil lamps and candles would make more sense as an emergency light source, however there is the following to consider:
a light source in the dark that emits smoke and fumes is a major give-away of someones position, traveling by artificial light would be a last resort. However once you have stopped to camp when it's going dark, and found a concealed camp location out of direct line of sight of large areas of land light is much safer, and you'll likely have a camp fire and that will give off light anyway. So you can probably get away with just a small candle for use if you want a bit of extra light to make gear repairs at camp
I always thought this was a good idea (time stamp 15:56):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98BL2u7CwW0
a light source in the dark that emits smoke and fumes is a major give-away of someones position, traveling by artificial light would be a last resort. However once you have stopped to camp when it's going dark, and found a concealed camp location out of direct line of sight of large areas of land light is much safer, and you'll likely have a camp fire and that will give off light anyway. So you can probably get away with just a small candle for use if you want a bit of extra light to make gear repairs at camp
I always thought this was a good idea (time stamp 15:56):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98BL2u7CwW0
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
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- Greg
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Re: Torches and light sources
It's an interesting topic.
Torches with a true 'fuel' (ie. oil soaked rag, etc.) are, as you say, difficult to carry around or keep ready, but they have another problem. They're TOO bright. They'll literally blind you to everything around you outside their field of light, making them arguably more of a hindrance than a help. A quickly made torch in the woods, using something like dried needles and leaves with pine pitch would serve you better, as it'd burn smaller and slower, like a Candle.
...which brings me to candles. Hand-dipped beeswax candles are your best bet. They're relatively easy to make (and fun!), and they carry their light for some time, but don't overwhelm the world with light (or blind you to the world around you as badly). There is the issue of dripping wax, but that's pretty easily solved by carrying your candle in a hide Lantern like this one I have.
Of course, you have to be willing to carry the bulk of a lantern that you don't want to smash or puncture, which is why most of the time I stick to bare candles.
Torches with a true 'fuel' (ie. oil soaked rag, etc.) are, as you say, difficult to carry around or keep ready, but they have another problem. They're TOO bright. They'll literally blind you to everything around you outside their field of light, making them arguably more of a hindrance than a help. A quickly made torch in the woods, using something like dried needles and leaves with pine pitch would serve you better, as it'd burn smaller and slower, like a Candle.
...which brings me to candles. Hand-dipped beeswax candles are your best bet. They're relatively easy to make (and fun!), and they carry their light for some time, but don't overwhelm the world with light (or blind you to the world around you as badly). There is the issue of dripping wax, but that's pretty easily solved by carrying your candle in a hide Lantern like this one I have.
Of course, you have to be willing to carry the bulk of a lantern that you don't want to smash or puncture, which is why most of the time I stick to bare candles.
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
Re: Torches and light sources
Yeah, I’ve always sort of assumed torches were mostly one of those Hollywoodisms that caught on because, darnit, they’re DRAMATIC! Also, I suppose if you have to improvise and you’ve got the materials available, a torch is a pretty simple and relatively effective option. But ultimately, from everything I’ve seen and read (and what little I’ve personally experienced), some kind of contained lantern is a much better option, and the beeswax candle solution is just about as elegantly simple as you can get.
A hide lantern like Greg mentions would probably be fantastic for a lot of what we do, since it’s relatively lightweight compared to more robust lanterns, and the hide itself won’t burn easily, depending on how it’s finished, which makes it less of a fire hazard than a bare candle, to say nothing of a big, flaming torch. I’m also a huge fan of those little box lanterns that Elliot talks about in the video Iodo shared above, but they’re a little modern for the kit I’ve got, and in the end, if you’re aiming for something kind of minimalist, a bare candle should really be plenty, as long as you’re careful with it.
I wonder though - when talking about carry weight as your inspiration for this post, were you perhaps inspired by this article? I thought it was pretty great, overall, and I had to chuckle at the guy making a bunch of torches out of paint stirring sticks
https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/l ... s-camping/
A hide lantern like Greg mentions would probably be fantastic for a lot of what we do, since it’s relatively lightweight compared to more robust lanterns, and the hide itself won’t burn easily, depending on how it’s finished, which makes it less of a fire hazard than a bare candle, to say nothing of a big, flaming torch. I’m also a huge fan of those little box lanterns that Elliot talks about in the video Iodo shared above, but they’re a little modern for the kit I’ve got, and in the end, if you’re aiming for something kind of minimalist, a bare candle should really be plenty, as long as you’re careful with it.
I wonder though - when talking about carry weight as your inspiration for this post, were you perhaps inspired by this article? I thought it was pretty great, overall, and I had to chuckle at the guy making a bunch of torches out of paint stirring sticks
https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/l ... s-camping/
Maerondir Perianseron, also called “Mickel,” Halfling Friend - Ranger of the Misty Mountains
Re: Torches and light sources
Sometimes this forum is uncanny in it's ability to present a question or answer to something you are working on at that exact moment.
I have been looking into light sources for the past few weeks for several reasons -
Firstly we have a lot of fire bans here in Australia so using solid state flame (even candles) in the bush is illegal and very frowned upon.
Secondly I want to replicate fire for my Beowulf performances.
Third, when I am at living history events after dark everyone busts out a torch or phone to light their way to the bathroom or around camp (not in my group!)
I have been experimenting with LED flame effect strips with decent success so far.
The first experiment was to simply tape some rawhide into a cube and see how much light one of the lights would throw,
Being satisfied with that I moved on to a more traditional lantern body which looks nice but needs more rawhide panels. Still it shows you the strip inside (bear in mind this is still a prototype so its messy)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g4Zbag ... sp=sharing
I am now working on several more period looking options. Unfortunately for the period of history I recreate such lanterns are not accurate but I think they will be better than seeing people using torches and most importantly they can be used in our fire ban season.
I have been looking into light sources for the past few weeks for several reasons -
Firstly we have a lot of fire bans here in Australia so using solid state flame (even candles) in the bush is illegal and very frowned upon.
Secondly I want to replicate fire for my Beowulf performances.
Third, when I am at living history events after dark everyone busts out a torch or phone to light their way to the bathroom or around camp (not in my group!)
I have been experimenting with LED flame effect strips with decent success so far.
The first experiment was to simply tape some rawhide into a cube and see how much light one of the lights would throw,
Being satisfied with that I moved on to a more traditional lantern body which looks nice but needs more rawhide panels. Still it shows you the strip inside (bear in mind this is still a prototype so its messy)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g4Zbag ... sp=sharing
I am now working on several more period looking options. Unfortunately for the period of history I recreate such lanterns are not accurate but I think they will be better than seeing people using torches and most importantly they can be used in our fire ban season.
But the white fury of the Northmen burned the hotter, and more skilled was their knighthood with long spears and bitter. Fewer were they but they clove through the Southrons like a fire-bolt in a forest.
Re: Torches and light sources
My thoughts for anything flame related go back to how? How did they light things like pipes? It's all very good and well if you are near a fire but the thought of striking flint and tinder to flame just for a smoke seems excessive.
There are references to matches in the hobbit and Gandalf probably just lights his with magic but otherwise it's a pain.
I really like the Stonebridge lanterns. A bit more complicated than the simple candle box but I could easily picture a dwarf using one.
There are references to matches in the hobbit and Gandalf probably just lights his with magic but otherwise it's a pain.
I really like the Stonebridge lanterns. A bit more complicated than the simple candle box but I could easily picture a dwarf using one.
But the white fury of the Northmen burned the hotter, and more skilled was their knighthood with long spears and bitter. Fewer were they but they clove through the Southrons like a fire-bolt in a forest.
- Greg
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Re: Torches and light sources
I’ve seen the stone bridge lanterns before and think they’re awesome…but I wonder what it would take to get one made without all the words stamped into the top…
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
Re: Torches and light sources
There is the swiss army folding lantern as well which doesn't have the lettered top but i didn't link it because it looks more modern.
I am reasonably confident I could build one similar to it's simpler design and perhaps middle earth it up. Thin horn/rawhide panels in a brass frame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN6JbL6iBC0
But the white fury of the Northmen burned the hotter, and more skilled was their knighthood with long spears and bitter. Fewer were they but they clove through the Southrons like a fire-bolt in a forest.
- ForgeCorvus
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Re: Torches and light sources
You don't need to go all the way to flame to light a pipe (although if you've already got a candle or WHY burning all you need is a spill ), I've lit rollies from a charcloth coal or slowmatch either one sparked with F&S....... Not done it for a while though as I quit 'pipeweed' about ten years ago.Eofor wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:56 pm My thoughts for anything flame related go back to how? How did they light things like pipes? It's all very good and well if you are near a fire but the thought of striking flint and tinder to flame just for a smoke seems excessive.
There are references to matches in the hobbit and Gandalf probably just lights his with magic but otherwise it's a pain.
I like the folding lanterns, very Dwarvish......... Iodo, will your tinderbox fit one?
ETA: Found This, just in case anyone has a spare $400 knocking about
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"All Things Strive" Gd Tak 'Gar
Barron (BAH-Ron) son of Barris (BAH-Ras) AKA Barron 'Blackcap'.
Independent Fellsward, Jobber, Tinker and Traveller in Trifles
- Turgolanas
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Re: Torches and light sources
I hadn't seen this! It is a good read, and I am impressed by the 29 pound pack - When I was doing backpacking we were running 50-60 lbs in a pack.Manveruon wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:19 pm
I wonder though - when talking about carry weight as your inspiration for this post, were you perhaps inspired by this article? I thought it was pretty great, overall, and I had to chuckle at the guy making a bunch of torches out of paint stirring sticks
https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/l ... s-camping/
That makes a lot of sense. I'll definitely incorporate some into my kit. I think the folding metal lantern could be a good compromise, and to me that is something that a ranger might be able to get his hands on. I'll probably experiment with making one myself. One question with candles - if you aren't building a fire first, for example if you needed to enter a cave, how would you light them?Greg wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:30 pm
...which brings me to candles. Hand-dipped beeswax candles are your best bet. They're relatively easy to make (and fun!), and they carry their light for some time, but don't overwhelm the world with light (or blind you to the world around you as badly). There is the issue of dripping wax, but that's pretty easily solved by carrying your candle in a hide Lantern like this one I have.
Re: Torches and light sources
I purchased two of the folding candle lanterns about two years ago. They were out of stock for the longest time.
The quality was just "O.K." I had hoped that it would be a little better.
The windows used to be made of mica. Now they use a thermoplastic. I read somewhere that this was because of Covid. They had a problem with getting it in and they don't know if it will ever be used again to make the lanterns. The plastic works, but it is flimsy. I think that its use detracts from the lantern over all.
I did get beeswax candles, but not the leather wallet.
I'm not sorry that I got them, but I would have preferred the previous generation of lanterns.
The quality was just "O.K." I had hoped that it would be a little better.
The windows used to be made of mica. Now they use a thermoplastic. I read somewhere that this was because of Covid. They had a problem with getting it in and they don't know if it will ever be used again to make the lanterns. The plastic works, but it is flimsy. I think that its use detracts from the lantern over all.
I did get beeswax candles, but not the leather wallet.
I'm not sorry that I got them, but I would have preferred the previous generation of lanterns.
Re: Torches and light sources
That Stonebridge is very cool and very 'conjecturally Dwarvish'!
Thinking about making torches by soaking sticks in oils got me thinking of natural oils in wood...
Holling C. Holling's 'Book of Indians' has a hunting story in the north woods where they jacklight for game using a 'torch' on the front of their canoe. IIRC, they had a birchbark box that would hold a burning pine knot (essentially made of fatwood), with a bark reflector to direct the light forwards, and the box would be full of sand to keep the knots from burning through. Toss a fresh knot on when the previous one was going out.
Thinking about making torches by soaking sticks in oils got me thinking of natural oils in wood...
Holling C. Holling's 'Book of Indians' has a hunting story in the north woods where they jacklight for game using a 'torch' on the front of their canoe. IIRC, they had a birchbark box that would hold a burning pine knot (essentially made of fatwood), with a bark reflector to direct the light forwards, and the box would be full of sand to keep the knots from burning through. Toss a fresh knot on when the previous one was going out.
Personae: Aistan son of Ansteig, common Beorning of Wilderland; Tungo Brandybuck, Eastfarthing Bounder, 3018 TA; a native Man of the Greyflood, c.850 SA
Re: Torches and light sources
Lindybeige isn't my favorite but this is a pretty good demonstration on why torches weren't really a thing despite being ubiquitous in movies and D&D.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiuHr5YVJBI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiuHr5YVJBI
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- Iodo
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Re: Torches and light sources
What about 19th century miners lamps? a wild camping YouTuber I watched yesterday had one in a video, and it just looked like something a dwarf might have, to my eye anyway, I had to do some research to find out exactly what it was
possibly too modern tho? just an idea
possibly too modern tho? just an idea
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
- ForgeCorvus
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Re: Torches and light sources
Miner's lamps are great (and are still legally required in mines) but you are right in that they do look a bit modern.
Still something like these may be a bit more Dwarvish
Still something like these may be a bit more Dwarvish
All debts are paid....... Nothing forgiven. Nothing forgotten.
"All Things Strive" Gd Tak 'Gar
Barron (BAH-Ron) son of Barris (BAH-Ras) AKA Barron 'Blackcap'.
Independent Fellsward, Jobber, Tinker and Traveller in Trifles
"All Things Strive" Gd Tak 'Gar
Barron (BAH-Ron) son of Barris (BAH-Ras) AKA Barron 'Blackcap'.
Independent Fellsward, Jobber, Tinker and Traveller in Trifles