Middle Earth Ranger Forum

So before I de-rail the Númenórean design thread any further than I already have, I figured I’d start a fresh thread to discuss cord-work since there’s a few questions about it (mostly from myself.)

As I understand it, it’s basically using some cord or a thong wrapped around a stiff form to create a raised image under a thin leather. I believe a regular stitch or glue is used and there shouldn’t be a need to cover the back? Any further technical explanation is beyond me. It’s common in sword scabbards in the Migration Period versus any sort of tooling (which was reserved for knife sheaths?) from what I’ve read.

The image I posted about the pouch I’m not sure about as I haven’t seen the reference to using that sort of decoration on a pouch. However I did get the image from a reenactor that is rather highly regarded for accuracy - David Huggins. I believe it’s a continental thing? I’m not aware of it being present in Britain.

Cimrandir wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:16 pm As I understand it, it’s basically using some cord or a thong wrapped around a stiff form to create a raised image under a thin leather. I believe a regular stitch or glue is used and there shouldn’t be a need to cover the back? Any further technical explanation is beyond me. It’s common in sword scabbards in the Migration Period versus any sort of tooling (which was reserved for knife sheaths?) from what I’ve read.

Origins aside, it's basically what you're thinking. In the case of the pouch/purse it would be a stiff material such as wood, horn or possibly rawhide. Then they'd glue down the cord in whatever pleasing pattern they like. After that it would be thin, wet leather glued down and you'd use a burnishing tool to follow the pattern and get it more defined. Burnishing tools were usually made of bone or wood. Bone is preferred because it's kind of self polishing and will get better with time.

I hope that's helpful.

those examples look really awesome I haven't ever tried this, but it looks easier to so on something solid and wooden like a sword sheath than on a pouch

in response to the discussion in the Numenorean design motifs thread on how to make it:

my personal, and very unhistorical approach this project would be in exactly the same way you would go about making a kydex knife sheath, I would get a stiff piece of leather for the back of the pouch lid, glue on the cord in the wanted shape, make the thinner layer for the top wet so it will wet-form, then stack the two up with wood and dense foam in the following order: plywood, thick leather, cord, wet thin leather, dense sheet of foam, plywood, then G-clamp it all together really tight and leave for long enough for the shape to stay in the thinner leather, then take it apart, glue with a water-based adhesive, and leave to dry

in theory that shouldn't warp the thicker leather because only the top piece should be wet formed, the other piece was right up against a solid flat piece of wood, so once the pieces are sewn together at the edges it should just be flat

...all theoretical, I have no actual real life experience with this

Hmm, it seems that, like usual, I rush into things half-cocked.

My plan was as follows.

- Cut out the bottom layer (4/5 oz veg-tan)
- Cut out the top layer with an extra centimeter or so to fold under the bottom layer (2 oz veg-tan)
- Trace design onto bottom layer.
- Tool/cut a small channel in the pattern of the design for the cord to lay in.
- Very carefully glue the cord into the grooves of the design and let dry.
- After glue is fully dry, stitch the top layer to the back in one straight line (not fully around the entire flap.)
- Spread glue along the edge and surrounding the design plus a little extra in the blank spaces. Clamp the crap out of it ensuring a tight bond.
- Once fully dry, remove clamps and stitch the remaining edge. Then stitch a second line around the edge to stiffen the edge and prevent stretching.
- Carefully wet the flap (no soaking, just a small pass with a damp cloth.) The flap will be clamped to one of my quartzite slabs to ensure flatness while wet.
- Using a small wooden clay modeling tool, press down the leather around the edge to bring out the pattern fully.
- Let dry then done.


I admit I’m not super-well versed in leather-crafting yet but it seemed to me a valid plan and one that would negate any stretching or deforming of the leather.

your plan sounds a lot more like a potential in-world solution than mine, you might have trouble keeping the back piece flat but it's no less likely to work than my idea, as I said, I have never tried this and everything I said is purely theoretical

It’s a new one for me too for sure. I just like the look of the pouch above so much and thought it would be a nice deviation from the usual tooling. I wanted to give it a go but I have no idea what I’m doing really. I don’t really want to rim it in metal. Seems a little too flashy for a ranger (perfect for other cultures though) and I was hoping to not have to use a wooden core as I have no access to tools to cut a shape like that. Hmmm, what to do, what to do…

Cimrandir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:35 pm I don’t really want to rim it in metal. Seems a little too flashy for a ranger...

Why not rim it in thin tarnished brass? I don't see that it would be any more flashy that the fancy Dunedain belt buckles

I mean yes, not too much flashier than belt buckles. Medieval folks blinged up everything so it would entirely make sense to do so here. Perhaps a more truthful answer would be that commissioning a crafter to make the rim and then attaching it myself is a bit further than I intended to take this project haha. It was supposed to be a simple weekend project grumble grumble. Lol

Cimrandir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:05 pm I mean yes, not too much flashier than belt buckles. Medieval folks blinged up everything so it would entirely make sense to do so here. Perhaps a more truthful answer would be that commissioning a crafter to make the rim and then attaching it myself is a bit further than I intended to take this project haha. It was supposed to be a simple weekend project grumble grumble. Lol

very true, I would have just cut the border shape from a piece of sheet brass and riveted it on, not worrying to much if it doesn't rap around the edge, but I have access to a band-saw at work, so...

Ahh, to have fun toys like a bandsaw. One of these days I need to buy a house haha.

Cimrandir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:10 pm Ahh, to have fun toys like a bandsaw. One of these days I need to buy a house haha.

me too

OK, I'm too curious now, I think I have to try my method

using scraps I have, the thicker piece is 10oz, and the thinner piece is 2oz (possibly too thick, but it's what I have):





now for some thick waxed linen cord and bohning fletching glue:





and now to wait half an hour for that to dry...

Iodo, you are a goshdarn champion for sure. I tested mine with some scraps (skipping the sewing steps) and it seemed to work all right. That was with 2 oz leather so I think you should be okay. I can’t wait to see how yours turns out.

Cimrandir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:30 pm Iodo, you are a goshdarn champion for sure. I tested mine with some scraps (skipping the sewing steps) and it seemed to work all right. That was with 2 oz leather so I think you should be okay. I can’t wait to see how yours turns out.

NP It seemed like a fun test, glue is dry, leather is wet:





and it's inside my kydex molding jig:





if this doesn't work I'll look like a fool

It’s never foolish if it’s for science!