WETA Strider's bedroll

Hard Kit is all other accoutrements that are not clothing, weapons or armour. This includes pots and tents, and flint & steel, and other things like that.

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Elleth
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WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Elleth »

... I see all of a sudden (I think?) a number of renditions on Etsy, including one by our own Owl! :mrgreen:

I'm not planning on anything to my own queue, but I'm curious. Did new pictures of the WETA prop start circulating recently? Or is this just a case of a number of crafters following a general trend?
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Manveruon »

I suspect it may have something to do with Svetliy Sudar Workshop’s continued development of Aragorn-themed items for EXTREMELY high prices, and other makers (like someone who may or may not be typing this right now) saying, to employ a bit of hyperbole, “well if they can charge $2,000,000,000 for a [widget], and people will still buy it, surely I can charge half that and still make an incredible profit!” :lol:
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Eofor »

Some of the prices out there are quite frankly ridiculous.

I'm not devaluing the craft and I'm aware that value is always determined by the price people are willing to pay but sometimes im floored.

The fell and fair ranger cloak is the one that always triggers me. It looks great and drapes well but it's a huge piece of money for a cloak they don't even hem the bottom of.
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Elleth »

I suspect it may have something to do with Svetliy Sudar Workshop’s continued development of Aragorn-themed items for EXTREMELY high prices
... well that makes perfect sense, thank you!

Regarding insanely high prices -
Once upon a time, just out of school I thought being a professional historical crafter would an amazing career and I was seriously looking into it. Then I met enough people to learn the unspoken secret: just about every top-flight craftsperson out there was living on a military pension, was married to a breadwinner, or otherwise had another source of income that actually paid the bills and gave them time to work*. Their craftwork was affordable (though still expensive, at least to a kid on minimum wage) because they were basically doing it for pocket money.

If I was trying to support myself on my crafting, I'd probably be charging something like Svetily's prices. And hardly anyone would buy my work, because to almost everyone who actually has to care about their household budget... it's just not worth that.

Maybe Patreon and Etsy and global markets have changed things... but I can absolutely understand those high prices, even if I'd never be able to justify paying them myself.

As I think Peter Lyon said about his swords back in the day (paraphrased) - "I learned to make what I wanted because I couldn't possibly afford to buy it!" :mrgreen:




---------

* related but similar issue, the "SCA armorer" problem. Where you start a commission, pay the deposit, the craftsman starts work.... then life happens, he has to go back to his job / bury his graampa / bail his cousin out of jail / whatever, your deposit gets spent, he REALLY REALLY means to get back to what he promised, but he's now six months deep in OTHER commissions, and your half-finished piece just sits there in a corner of his workshop gathering an ugh-field until he just ghosts you entirely. No one's fault exactly - he certainly never intended to be a scammer - but the day job always has to take precedence, so lots of fun stuff never gets done/made, because we all need to pay for a roof and food. Such is life.
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Eofor »

Please don't think I was being critical! Like I said, value is determined by what people are willing to pay for a good or service.

I've spent the last ten years commissioning various work from simple clothing through to museum quality replicas and I've never once criticised a quote or a price for a job. It's either worth it or it isn't, the next person may have a completely different set of circunstances which makes them think the opposite.

I'd much rather pay my artists a reasonable wage than have them close up shop and lose their skills to a mundane 9-5 job.
But the white fury of the Northmen burned the hotter, and more skilled was their knighthood with long spears and bitter. Fewer were they but they clove through the Southrons like a fire-bolt in a forest.
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Elleth »

certainly no offense taken on my part!

I'm profoundly grateful (and admiring!) of anyone who can make bespoke crafting work. We're all the richer for them. :mrgreen:
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Iodo »

Manveruon wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:55 am I suspect it may have something to do with Svetliy Sudar Workshop’s continued development of Aragorn-themed items for EXTREMELY high prices, and other makers (like someone who may or may not be typing this right now) saying...

Manveruon, I stumbled across what must be your Etsy (your surcoat is featured in the quiver photographs), there are some VERY NICE pieces on there, good job :P and I had to keep reminding myself that I have just bought a new van and have no spare money right now :lol:
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Cimrandir »

Manveruon wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:55 am I suspect it may have something to do with Svetliy Sudar Workshop’s continued development of Aragorn-themed items for EXTREMELY high prices, and other makers (like someone who may or may not be typing this right now) saying, to employ a bit of hyperbole, “well if they can charge $2,000,000,000 for a [widget], and people will still buy it, surely I can charge half that and still make an incredible profit!” :lol:
I assume Svetliy Sudar Workshop is the supplier for the films? It seems they were based in Russia and since I'm late to the party here, most of their stuff has been shut down unfortunately. How expensive are we talking here?
Eofor wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:55 amThe fell and fair ranger cloak is the one that always triggers me. It looks great and drapes well but it's a huge piece of money for a cloak they don't even hem the bottom of.
I'm with you on Fell and Fair here. I've not dealt with them directly but every thing they've put out has given me a weird vibe. Entirely too commercial for my taste and the head guy just seems fake. That's just my opinion of course. I've heard middling things about the event they put on as well.
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Elleth »

I'm fairly certain they don't have any connection to WETA. Certainly from the "making of" sections all those years ago the WETA crew all sounded like locals.

Shut down b/c Russian.... ugh. :(

From memory... the bedroll (pretty cheap/simple, just a thin wool-ish blanket and laced leather) was ~500-600, and something like Aragorn's jerkin was in the.. 2K? 3K? I don't recall exactly, but I remember looking at it, and guesstimating the hours of work it would take + materials and thinking it was about what I'd expect if one was trying to live a middle-class American life just on craftwork... not that I've any idea what the exchange rate, Russian cost of living, taxes/duties, etc do to what they actually see on their end. Maybe it was a fortune, maybe it was a pittance, no idea.

I think Fell and Fair is more off in the cosplay/LARPy direction than most folks here, and they've absolutely got a bit of a "theater kids" vibe which isn't for everyone. I do like Zan's enthusiastic, helpful attitude though, and somewhere I recall seeing some reminiscence of his about growing up reading fantasy and old romantic literature (Walter Scott I think?) and that just sounded so familiar and sweet. :mrgreen:

Crafting-wise, I think both trying to do things a bit more mass-market because cost and lighter materials because South Carolina climate means their off the shelf stuff is never going to look quite "deep mythic northern Europe" to the hardcore medievalist's eye. It's a wide world even in geekdom, we've all got different priorities. Personally, I think it's a great sign when all of our various subcultures don't quite line up: it means there's a broad base of interest and more people experimenting with things.

Who knows what some 14 year old that gets sucked into F&F events today will come up with in thirty years? :mrgreen:
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Cimrandir »

Elleth wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:47 am I'm fairly certain they don't have any connection to WETA. Certainly from the "making of" sections all those years ago the WETA crew all sounded like locals.

Shut down b/c Russian.... ugh. :(

Well to be fair, I think the shutdown was coming from the Russian side, not the other way around. I've not looked into the behind-the-scenes stuff much so thank you for the clarification. It just seemed like for the mention of how expensive they were, they might have had some "screen-used" connection.

Elleth wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:47 am From memory... the bedroll (pretty cheap/simple, just a thin wool-ish blanket and laced leather) was ~500-600, and something like Aragorn's jerkin was in the.. 2K? 3K? I don't recall exactly, but I remember looking at it, and guesstimating the hours of work it would take + materials and thinking it was about what I'd expect if one was trying to live a middle-class American life just on craftwork... not that I've any idea what the exchange rate, Russian cost of living, taxes/duties, etc do to what they actually see on their end. Maybe it was a fortune, maybe it was a pittance, no idea.

I agree with you completely on how and why artists and craftsfolk charge the prices they do but hoo boy, that's way more than even I was thinking. I'm never quibbled over price when I've commissioned things but that high of a cost would scare me off for sure.

Elleth wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:47 am I think Fell and Fair is more off in the cosplay/LARPy direction than most folks here, and they've absolutely got a bit of a "theater kids" vibe which isn't for everyone. I do like Zan's enthusiastic, helpful attitude though, and somewhere I recall seeing some reminiscence of his about growing up reading fantasy and old romantic literature (Walter Scott I think?) and that just sounded so familiar and sweet. :mrgreen:

Crafting-wise, I think both trying to do things a bit more mass-market because cost and lighter materials because South Carolina climate means their off the shelf stuff is never going to look quite "deep mythic northern Europe" to the hardcore medievalist's eye. It's a wide world even in geekdom, we've all got different priorities. Personally, I think it's a great sign when all of our various subcultures don't quite line up: it means there's a broad base of interest and more people experimenting with things.

Who knows what some 14 year old that gets sucked into F&F events today will come up with in thirty years? :mrgreen:

I've got no problem at all with folks tending toward the cosplay/LARP side of things as not everybody is insane enough to commit to this like we have. And that's a good point about their southeasten location. At least they offer items in linen and wool as not everybody does that. It just rankles me how "corporate" F&F seem when they post things on social media and such. It very well could be me reading into something that isn't there of course. I've been told that's a flaw in my personality haha. But it just seems to me they are trying to sell you on a whole "experience" (outside of their Weekend Warrior event) versus just providing the bits of kit to allow you to create your own story. But like I said, that's just my plebeian opinion and I could be way off base.
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Elleth »

Cimrandir wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:26 am I've not looked into the behind-the-scenes stuff much so thank you for the clarification. It just seemed like for the mention of how expensive they were, they might have had some "screen-used" connection.

The WETA "making of" is I think absolutely worth seeing from a crafter's point of view: I know they're on the extended DVDs from the '00s, I assume they're still available. The only catch is that once you see how some of the illusions are done, it can be hard not to see them when you're just trying to enjoy the films. So.. mixed bag. For what it's worth, as much as I liked them - they're why I stopped watching "behind the scenes" bits as a matter of course. I like the illusion.

Cimrandir wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:26 am I've got no problem at all with folks tending toward the cosplay/LARP side of things as not everybody is insane enough to commit to this like we have. And that's a good point about their southeasten location. At least they offer items in linen and wool as not everybody does that. It just rankles me how "corporate" F&F seem when they post things on social media and such. It very well could be me reading into something that isn't there of course. I've been told that's a flaw in my personality haha. But it just seems to me they are trying to sell you on a whole "experience" (outside of their Weekend Warrior event) versus just providing the bits of kit to allow you to create your own story. But like I said, that's just my plebeian opinion and I could be way off base.
For what it's worth, I don't personally know Zan, this is all speculation -

I think what's going on is mostly that Zan's young. And it looks like he's doing what a lot of 20-30-somethings do when they push out into the big wide world: they see what the big fish are doing (Disney, for instance) and trying to ape the results without fully understanding all the moving pieces underneath. That's not intended as a slam - that's just how outsiders to a given industry enter the world. Which is cool.

A generation and change ago, we'd have likely never heard of them: F&F would be some dudes and gals having a fun time in the forest with SCA-level kit and maybe a VHS tape sold in the back of a fan 'zine. Now because of cheap ubiquitous video software etc, we see something way more polished than that - but also not all the way to the New Line / MCU level of polish our eyes are used to. More, there's probably just enough income that they can just about make F&F profitable enough to be a full-time gig, at least for a couple folks. And who wouldn't want to do their passion for a living? I sure would. :mrgreen:

Anyhow, the result of all that is sometimes this weird uncanny valley effect where they produce something almost at the professional studio level but not quite. (Not out of incompetence, just because of a lack of tens or hundreds of person-years of professional experience + big studio budgets). Which can just feel weird sometimes... and I think that's what's responsible for the "corporate" look you're seeing.

But as you say, just my plebian opinion. :mrgreen:
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Cimrandir »

I mean, I can't fault them for trying to run a business. Promoting yourself gotta be done somehow. Just seems a little out of tune to use Tolkien quotes to sell things but ultimately that's just my two unasked for cents.
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

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Cimrandir wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:15 am I mean, I can't fault them for trying to run a business. Promoting yourself gotta be done somehow. Just seems a little out of tune to use Tolkien quotes to sell things but ultimately that's just my two unasked for cents.
I'll admit, I liked them a lot more when it seemed like they were just showing off their hobby on social media like everyone else, and were just going the extra mile with effects and such in their photography. When it turned into a business I became a bit skeptical like you, and have raised my eyebrows more than a few times when they've said things like (paraphrasing) 'Weekend Warrior events will be filmed', and then not said openly what the film will be used for. Like...are you making movies, and using your paying customers as extras to make more money? It just felt off, regardless of how big of Tolkien fans they are and how pure their original intentions were.
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Elleth »

Just seems a little out of tune to use Tolkien quotes to sell things
Fair.
... and have raised my eyebrows more than a few times when they've said things like...
Hunh. Sounds like I missed some things. :(
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Re: WETA Strider's bedroll

Post by Eofor »

I was at an event this weekend and talking to a fair few well established traders who I have known for years, they're all getting out of reenactment gear because they can make ten times as much off LARP gear.
One of them stated 'LARP people spend stupidly large amounts of money, they don't seem to balk at anything'
Dave Roper of Ganderwick creations seems to be going down the same path, I tried to get a quote for the fittings for my new historical sword and couldn't raise a reply but he is turning out large amounts of (amazing but expensive) LARP gear.

Perhaps that is what we are seeing here alongside a rise in social media and image based influencing? In a recent post on one of the facebook groups a fellow asked about a cloak and while there were a few smatterings of advice from old hands there was a chorus of 'Fell and fair'.
Now compared to the alternative of going and doing your research, buying material and learning to sew, the option to just click buy now on a shop with amazing photos must be enticing to a new hobbyist.
But the white fury of the Northmen burned the hotter, and more skilled was their knighthood with long spears and bitter. Fewer were they but they clove through the Southrons like a fire-bolt in a forest.
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