What size of rope makes sense? A discussion.

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SierraStrider
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What size of rope makes sense? A discussion.

Post by SierraStrider »

So I recently posted somewhat jokingly about the discrepancy between Dungeons and Dragons hempen rope weight (10lbs for 50 feet) and the weight of my trusty hemp rope (1lb for 57 feet).

Based on crossectional area of my rope, pi, and the square-cube law, rope that would weigh as much as Dungeons and Dragons thinks it should would be an inch and a quarter thick! This is available to purchase, and claims a breaking strength of almost 6000lbs!

...Which, when you think about it, is about the strength of modern climbing rope. So...is Dungeons and Dragons more accurate than it seems? Should I upgrade to some 5ft/lb ship-mooring rope?

No.

The reason is several fold. First, because I don't take rope into the wilderness for climbing, whether using modern or pseudohistorical gear. Honestly, I would probably do quite as well with rope half this diameter.

Second, because those who did take rope into the wilderness for climbing prior to the invention of modern materials...still used rope of about the same diameter as mine. According to this source (which has some badass photos of women rock climbing in full-length skirts and bonnets), people who used ropes for rock climbing have pretty much always used rope in the 8-11mm diameter range. However, they used it quite differently; the idea of being caught by a rope after a fall was ludicrous, in part because of the rope's lower strength, but perhaps even more due to its lower elasticity. Having your pelvis jerk to an instant halt after a 10-foot drop while the rest of you tries to keep going is not good for one's back.

Manila rope has slightly greater elasticity, but for our purposes, Tolkien talks about "hemp". This could be a colloquial usage, referring to any kind of fiber, but for my part, I use real hemp rope, which has virtually no give and is therefore wildly unsuitable for climbing, by modern standards.

Still, it's interesting to know that someone like Sam, using a rope to descend a rocky defile, would likely have used something far closer to what I've got than a big crossfit rope.
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Eofor
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Re: What size of rope makes sense? A discussion.

Post by Eofor »

It's a good discussion to have. For a long time I carried a 10m coil of 6mm hemp rope on hikes (to be fair it's quite light and compact) until on review I realised that I rarely used it and in the situations I did a much thinner cord would have sufficed.

I now carry a small bag with several smaller lengths of different diameter, I find I use them more readily because they are accessible and they take up much less space in my pack.
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Elleth
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Re: What size of rope makes sense? A discussion.

Post by Elleth »

Eofur - this concept?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shNoqMC6y6M

I've tried it with modern stuff and it seemed quite sensible, if overkill for anything I actually do.
I absolutely prefer it to the "cut off pieces as you need them" or the "use the end of a really long piece and put up with the bother" methods anyway. :mrgreen:

I've been meaning to give it a go with traditional materials, but just.. haven't. Mostly I'm just doing dayhikes these days anyhow, so it's not been worth the time/money.

What have you found?

Oh - the list from the instructor in the video, in the event it goes away or you don't want to watch the whole thing:

======================
in tbe pocket:
6' hanked paracord, bowline knot in one end, stop knot in the other.

in the pack:
1 x 6' "commando rope" (originally 5/8 manilla with toggle on one end, loop on the other), used as pack hanger
3 x 6' misc. utility lines (bucksaw, tripod, etc)
4 x 6' orange/high visibility guy lines for shelter,etc
1 x 30' ridgeline [set up with loop, prussiks, ~4" toggles, all on one carabiner, w/ 6-8 titanium stakes]

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​total: 1x6' "pocket" hank + 8 x 6' utility lines + 1x30' ridgeline
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ForgeCorvus
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Re: What size of rope makes sense? A discussion.

Post by ForgeCorvus »

Maybe somebody way back when the D&D gear lists were written made a fundamental mistake.
Ropes used to be defined by circumference so a 1 1/2 inch rope has a diameter of just under 1/2 inch ( About 11mm if you speak French.) pretty much the handy size, now if someone who know nothing about rope asked "How big is climbing rope ?" and was told 1 1/2 inches they might assume its the thickness (diameter).

Climbing up any (unknotted) rope as thin as a 1/2 inch is utter torture. Climbing down it, marginally less so.

As a belay or a hauling line however, its a good useable size. Thick enough to be comfortable to use and thin enough to tie all the common knots* without needing to fight half your bodyweight in cordage.

Most (All?) of my previous bush trips have been with modern (but sorta Old School) gear, so its been basically paracord and B 50 Dacron.
Some of my LARPing kits have included plaited leather ropes (one of which is a four fathom toggle-rope with a loop)



*I've just thought of a spin-off thread from this.
Last edited by ForgeCorvus on Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SierraStrider
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Re: What size of rope makes sense? A discussion.

Post by SierraStrider »

Eofor wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:54 am I now carry a small bag with several smaller lengths of different diameter, I find I use them more readily because they are accessible and they take up much less space in my pack.
Hmmm. I've been doing something similar without really thinking about it. Maybe I should start doing it more consciously.
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Eofor
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Re: What size of rope makes sense? A discussion.

Post by Eofor »

Elleth wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:49 am Eofur - this concept?
I arrived at the conclusion for the same reasons he did (less bulk and ease of use) but have put less thought into the individual uses of each length. I can't get to my kit right now but I will take a photo when I can.

Also when using rope and not paracord it's been really handy to have the right gauge rope for the task to hand and not be using thick rope for smaller tasks when cord will do.

SierraStrider wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:16 pm Hmmm. I've been doing something similar without really thinking about it. Maybe I should start doing it more consciously.
I'd suggest starting with a list of what you actually use rope for when you are out in the wild. Never used it for climbing? Unlikely to ever use it for climbing? Then why would you need a 50ft length of half inch rope?

Once you have a list it should be easy to start thinking of what length and gauge you need for each task.
But the white fury of the Northmen burned the hotter, and more skilled was their knighthood with long spears and bitter. Fewer were they but they clove through the Southrons like a fire-bolt in a forest.
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