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Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:24 pm
by Iodo
I've always thought those are cool, one of my friends parents use to have one stood on the hearth stone next to there fire, the only thing that put me off trying to buy one was how heavy those big glass lenses are
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:09 am
by Charlotte
If I understand correctly, the the early middle ages (at least in northwestern Europe) lighting and such beyond the hearth fire was usually done with oil lamps or rush lights (the pith of rushes soaked in tallow, unfortunately I have not found any suitable rushes growing in this region). I don't see any reason why tallow candles would not have been an option, so maybe they were a thing too - but while beeswax did exist, it was an expensive and usually imported good. It was in particular associated with the church (and probably added to the experience of churches in terms of sensory phenomena), but Iirc was used by elites as well.
That said, while I think it would be interesting - especially for certain times/places/contexts in ME - to explore other forms of lighting, I think beeswax candles fit with s lot broader personas in ME, for the same reason more use of leather and hunted goods and so on do (the lack of feudal class rule and post-apocalyptic conditions). They fit the aesthetic vibe, and I think it would be pretty easy to argue for them being common among the hobbits of the Shire, the Dunedain, beornings, etc etc.
I do like the idea of dwarves having (with obvious aesthetic tweaks) forms of mining lamp
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:44 pm
by Manveruon
I think it would be really cool to try making some authentic rushlights! I hadn’t ever really considered that before, but it does look like you can buy rushes online, and then it would just be a matter of treating them with either tallow or a sort of modern stand-in.
Agreed on the count of beeswax though! And I would think that if there was enough trade between the various regions of Middle-earth for pipe weed and coffee to be spread across the continent (to a certain extent at least) then beeswax from the Beornings, or even Rohan or the Shire, wouldn’t be TOO hard to come by, especially for the Dúnedain, what with their Elvish hook-up.
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:45 am
by Charlotte
Yeah there is an extremely strong association in Tolkien imo between elves and the Church, and so even on a broader thematic level the 'elven hookup' (and numenorean heritage) works to grant the Dunedain access to a variety of technologies (thinking also of - was it Elleth's? Raw silk tunic that was justified on a similar basis).
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:52 am
by Ohtarvarno
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:11 pm
by Peter Remling
Regarding torches in a DnD or Tolkien setting: torches are extremely easy to make, they last about 20 minutes to a half hour are simple to light or transfer the flame to the next prepared torch. Imagine you're in a wooded area or a deep dark ravine or dungeon, you need light to see your enemies or check for traps on the floor. You only have several packs among the group and they are stuffed with provisions, tools, lighting and sharpening equipment. Lanterns are useful but take up a lot of precious space and are easy to break. One of the items in your sharpening kit is oil. I recommend vegtable oil for several reasons, first it works just as well as any other oil to protect your weapons from rust and secondly you can use it to fry your food with. Take a branch from a tree, a stick on the ground or a piece of broken furniture or old discarded weapon (if in a dungeon) wrap some precut cloth strips around one end, dribble some oil on it (you can use the used cooking oil if you want to conserve your oil) wave it around for a minute to let the oil soak in and start to evaporate. Your new torch will light readily from any fire source or your flint and steel. You precut strips of cloth for bandages so you should always have them in a pack.
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:21 pm
by Manveruon
That is a FANTASTIC resource! Thanks!
Peter Remling wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:11 pm
Regarding torches in a DnD or Tolkien setting: torches are extremely easy to make, they last about 20 minutes to a half hour are simple to light or transfer the flame to the next prepared torch. Imagine you're in a wooded area or a deep dark ravine or dungeon, you need light to see your enemies or check for traps on the floor. You only have several packs among the group and they are stuffed with provisions, tools, lighting and sharpening equipment. Lanterns are useful but take up a lot of precious space and are easy to break. One of the items in your sharpening kit is oil. I recommend vegtable oil for several reasons, first it works just as well as any other oil to protect your weapons from rust and secondly you can use it to fry your food with. Take a branch from a tree, a stick on the ground or a piece of broken furniture or old discarded weapon (if in a dungeon) wrap some precut cloth strips around one end, dribble some oil on it (you can use the used cooking oil if you want to conserve your oil) wave it around for a minute to let the oil soak in and start to evaporate. Your new torch will light readily from any fire source or your flint and steel. You precut strips of cloth for bandages so you should always have them in a pack.
And this is an excellent point! I’d honestly love to try it sometime, for no other reason than that torches are SUPER dramatic, haha. But yeah, I suppose they could indeed have their uses in a practical setting.
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:39 pm
by Turgolanas
From a practical standpoint - I think candle lanterns have a value in areas that are prone to burn bans and the like. I would suspect that torches would be frowned upon in those conditions. Any thoughts on oil or kerosene lanterns like the style below?
https://www.kohls.com/product/prd-24323 ... src=a[url]w.ds[/url]
I would think they would be great for encampments, but less so for rangers on the move.
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:23 pm
by Elleth
We've a number of those for power outages and the like: they're quite out of "our" period, and with real kerosene can stink something awful - but they're bright.
Personally for "period" lighting I like candles for MERF/ MERS contexts (sometimes in a skin lantern such as Greg showed), or little clay grease lamps for more primitive yet.
I rather like the look of some the sheet brass and horn medieval lanterns I've seen for sale, but have never had call to purchase one.
Likewise I'd love to play with rushlights and pine torches - but just haven't done so yet.
Oh - Eofor and others w/complete fire bans: some of the new LED "flameless candles" are staggeringly good. I've a few battery/led pillar candles around the house as part of room decor, and from across the room you truly can't tell they're not the real thing. I suppose perhaps if you watched them constantly to learn the coded flicker pattern you could, but still.. they're quite impressive and relatively cheap so if you absolutely positively can't have *any* fire and don't want to go obviously modern - highly recommended.
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:15 pm
by Elleth
PS, re:
(thinking also of - was it Elleth's? Raw silk tunic that was justified on a similar basis).
for what it's worth, I've rethought that decision:
viewtopic.php?p=51084#p51084
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 12:44 am
by Charlotte
Im currently taking a course in ceramics analysis for my archaeology minor, and one of the 'labs' involves making pottery
One thing I decided to make is based on the grease lamp found at birka, though I rounded and smoothed it more and incised it with a pattern based on Elleth's numenorean leaf-arc one. It's on the hard side of leather hard at the moment, and I'll take it in for firing on Friday
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:34 am
by Elleth
That is so cool!
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:12 pm
by Erfaron
Sorrel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 12:44 am
Im currently taking a course in ceramics analysis for my archaeology minor, and one of the 'labs' involves making pottery
One thing I decided to make is based on the grease lamp found at birka, though I rounded and smoothed it more and incised it with a pattern based on Elleth's numenorean leaf-arc one. It's on the hard side of leather hard at the moment, and I'll take it in for firing on Friday
That looks amazing, one thing I would caution for oil lamps is that you need to be careful not to spill or knock it over, maybe some sort of film or thin covering that would let the light escape but give you another second to grab it
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:30 pm
by Charlotte
I've make and used a similar lamp before - for quite long periods of time - it was unfired though, and quite cracked, so I had to keep it in a tray to prevent oil slowly leaking out the bottom, lol. But these kinds of lamps aren't really a fire hazard the way modern oil lamps (or even candles) are, because the spilled oil can't ignite (being probably deer tallow I'll use, but it's true of all animal and vegetable oils afaik) and if it touches the flame will just put out the flame.
I could probably knock it off of something if I had it on a table (in which case it would probably shatter and go out, rip oil lamp), but being much wider than it is tall I'm not sure how it could be knocked over
Re: Torches and light sources
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:47 pm
by ForgeCorvus
Sorrel: Did you incise before or after your lamp got to leather?
It looks a really nice job.