Crafts and Skills
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KenpoPaladin
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:45 pm
Crafts and Skills
Hello all. i stumbled across this site while looking around the net. i find alot of the posts very interesting and well thought out. Does anyone practice any of the skills that are talked about? I greatly enjoy the outdoors and the skills for living in the wilderness. Would like to here others experiences.
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Greg
- Urush bithî 'nKi ya-nam bawâb
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You'd be hard pressed to find anyone here on the forums that doesn't practice the skills discussed here.
Most of us go out on our own or with a friend to employ our skills, but not all. I go out alone as well as with a "party" of adventurers, mostly SCA members, which allows us to cover most of Tolkien's "character classes" that he typically puts together, much like the fellowship of the ring or what you might find in a group in a Dungeons and Dragons game, etc..
The big thing about making all of your gear functional is SO you can use it. That's why we put so much thought into it. Build your gear, make your clothing, purchase weapons and equipment that are functional so that when you take them to the field, you're not hung out to dry. Because whether you're just camping or not, your life DOES, in all honesty, depend on it.
Most of us go out on our own or with a friend to employ our skills, but not all. I go out alone as well as with a "party" of adventurers, mostly SCA members, which allows us to cover most of Tolkien's "character classes" that he typically puts together, much like the fellowship of the ring or what you might find in a group in a Dungeons and Dragons game, etc..
The big thing about making all of your gear functional is SO you can use it. That's why we put so much thought into it. Build your gear, make your clothing, purchase weapons and equipment that are functional so that when you take them to the field, you're not hung out to dry. Because whether you're just camping or not, your life DOES, in all honesty, depend on it.
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
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mcapanelli
- Haeropada
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Peter Remling
- Athel Dunedain
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:20 am
Hi:
As Greg says we all practice certain areas and all have our shortcomings. One of my principle ones is plant identification, can't tell Poison Ivy from a Dogwood tree (not really that bad) but if you were in the woods needing herbal remedies, don't call on me.
Basically we do a lot of support for one another as to what can work and what we'd do differently. Airing ones shortcoming is just as important as posting the successes: One you identify that which you feel weak in and by publicly voiceing it, you are showing you are open to comments.
A good few of the folkes here (not me) are ex or current military and they bring a great wealth of knowledge on the practical applications. The rest of us share a zest for primitive living skills, weaponry, Tolkien and just "how the heck did they do that?"
After all that is said and done, It's just plain fun too !
Welcome!!!!!!!!!
As Greg says we all practice certain areas and all have our shortcomings. One of my principle ones is plant identification, can't tell Poison Ivy from a Dogwood tree (not really that bad) but if you were in the woods needing herbal remedies, don't call on me.
Basically we do a lot of support for one another as to what can work and what we'd do differently. Airing ones shortcoming is just as important as posting the successes: One you identify that which you feel weak in and by publicly voiceing it, you are showing you are open to comments.
A good few of the folkes here (not me) are ex or current military and they bring a great wealth of knowledge on the practical applications. The rest of us share a zest for primitive living skills, weaponry, Tolkien and just "how the heck did they do that?"
After all that is said and done, It's just plain fun too !
Welcome!!!!!!!!!
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Beornmann
- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
- Posts: 329
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:57 pm
- Location: NE Ohio
My daughter shoots better than I do. No, really, she does.
I like the outdoors, but don't get out all that much by myself. Mostly do SCA fighting, starting to contact some local historical trekkers as they have more outings that I might attend. I think most on the list balance their time and money as permits; we do what we can, when we can.
I like the outdoors, but don't get out all that much by myself. Mostly do SCA fighting, starting to contact some local historical trekkers as they have more outings that I might attend. I think most on the list balance their time and money as permits; we do what we can, when we can.
Near is the hour when the Lost should come forth, And the Grey Company ride from the North.
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KerryTracker
- Dúnadan
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- Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:11 pm
- Location: County Kerry, Eire
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Some of the skills are easier to practise than others. Walking silently in the woods with a staff is one thing, but how do you work on your skills in combat bow shooting? Things work differently when someone is out there trying to shoot you back.
Has anyone come up with some good archery practise?
In order to work on my staff fighting, I strung a rope between two trees about double my head height. Then I hung a small log from the middle. I use that to work on my attacks and defenses. Once in awhile I have been clocked!!!
There has to be a better way than this........
Has anyone come up with some good archery practise?
In order to work on my staff fighting, I strung a rope between two trees about double my head height. Then I hung a small log from the middle. I use that to work on my attacks and defenses. Once in awhile I have been clocked!!!
There has to be a better way than this........
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Pwyll
- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
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- Location: SW Pennsylvania
The SCA has combat archery as a combat form, and it's included in some battles.
There are two types. The first uses bows of up to 30#, fiberglass arrows with heads of either dense plastic or heavy rubber, and 1 1/4 " minimum diameter (so as to not penetrate the bars of the helms). There is also an "anti-bounceback device" instead of regular fletching.
The second method uses bows up to 50#, and arrows made of golf tubes, with padding on the front. I will say that these arrows do not fly, so much as lumber...
These arrows are slower, naturally, than the real counterparts. And a bit harder to use, due to the nature of the ABD, and the difficulty of drawing them. We would usually carry them in a large bag, rather than a quiver.
And, yes, it is very difficult to shoot someone who is charging you. Especially if he has a shield and is skilled in its use.
I'll also note that it's remarkable how fast somebody can cover ground when he's running at you with a large stick in his hand.
And how slow you cover ground when running at an archer...
Of course, the combat archery is merely one aspect. There is also regular target archery. And there is a lot of wonderfully inventive variety for targets. Of course, "royal rounds", at 20, 30 and 40 yards at regular targets. A 100 yard clout shoot. An "advancing" man shoot. And some of the roving ranges at events such as "Will's Revenge" are diabolical in their design, or hilarious.
Such as the "frenchman" target, head moving back and forth, while a tape of the "taunting" from Holy Grail plays... Multiple targets for timed fire. A very fast moving rabbit...
There are two types. The first uses bows of up to 30#, fiberglass arrows with heads of either dense plastic or heavy rubber, and 1 1/4 " minimum diameter (so as to not penetrate the bars of the helms). There is also an "anti-bounceback device" instead of regular fletching.
The second method uses bows up to 50#, and arrows made of golf tubes, with padding on the front. I will say that these arrows do not fly, so much as lumber...
These arrows are slower, naturally, than the real counterparts. And a bit harder to use, due to the nature of the ABD, and the difficulty of drawing them. We would usually carry them in a large bag, rather than a quiver.
And, yes, it is very difficult to shoot someone who is charging you. Especially if he has a shield and is skilled in its use.
I'll also note that it's remarkable how fast somebody can cover ground when he's running at you with a large stick in his hand.
And how slow you cover ground when running at an archer...
Of course, the combat archery is merely one aspect. There is also regular target archery. And there is a lot of wonderfully inventive variety for targets. Of course, "royal rounds", at 20, 30 and 40 yards at regular targets. A 100 yard clout shoot. An "advancing" man shoot. And some of the roving ranges at events such as "Will's Revenge" are diabolical in their design, or hilarious.
Such as the "frenchman" target, head moving back and forth, while a tape of the "taunting" from Holy Grail plays... Multiple targets for timed fire. A very fast moving rabbit...
Pwyll
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KerryTracker
- Dúnadan
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:11 pm
- Location: County Kerry, Eire
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I didn't know that the SCA did full combat drills. I would imagine that one could get some good training out of that.
The SCA isn't really big here in Ireland. There is a group in the SE but it is a five hour drive.
I was surprised when I moved here that there was little interest in the ancient skills and weaponry. There is a school for learning edged combat at the University of Limerick, but again, too far to drive.
Life is a little slower here......
The SCA isn't really big here in Ireland. There is a group in the SE but it is a five hour drive.
I was surprised when I moved here that there was little interest in the ancient skills and weaponry. There is a school for learning edged combat at the University of Limerick, but again, too far to drive.
Life is a little slower here......
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Pwyll
- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
- Posts: 113
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- Location: SW Pennsylvania
Yeah, the SCA has plenty of battles. Wars in a number of locations, actually, mostly a good excuse for people to get together and have a good time.
One of the things I enjoyed was the opportunity, at the Pennsic War, in Pennsylvania, to act as a scout in the woods battle. An opportunity to creep around in those woods, do a bit of tracking, guess the "enemy's" intention. Once the battle started, things changed, especially as those woods are now pretty open, for the most part.
Heh, odds are, I've been on the opposite side of the field as Beornmann, more than once. <Waves>
One of the things I enjoyed was the opportunity, at the Pennsic War, in Pennsylvania, to act as a scout in the woods battle. An opportunity to creep around in those woods, do a bit of tracking, guess the "enemy's" intention. Once the battle started, things changed, especially as those woods are now pretty open, for the most part.
Heh, odds are, I've been on the opposite side of the field as Beornmann, more than once. <Waves>
Pwyll
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Pwyll
- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
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Siani makes a good point.
The SCA form of combat is a good bit removed from historical fighting, due, in good part, to safety concerns. It has become more of a sport than a true fighting art. I can say this with long experience doing it. It's a lot of fun, too. But it's limited as to areas that can be struck, to what is considered effective, and to interpretation.
Bearing these limitations in mind, however, it can be useful, especially for approximating some types of combat.
As for specifics, those might be better addressed in the WMA section.
The SCA form of combat is a good bit removed from historical fighting, due, in good part, to safety concerns. It has become more of a sport than a true fighting art. I can say this with long experience doing it. It's a lot of fun, too. But it's limited as to areas that can be struck, to what is considered effective, and to interpretation.
Bearing these limitations in mind, however, it can be useful, especially for approximating some types of combat.
As for specifics, those might be better addressed in the WMA section.
Pwyll
Come to the dark side.
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Greg
- Urush bithî 'nKi ya-nam bawâb
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The best way to learn how to appropriately assert yourself in a live combat situation is, quite obviously, to place yourself in a live combat situation. No training prepares you for trying to use proper techniques while under the adrenaline rush of actual combat, so you have to find a way to create that rush.
The easiest way to do this is to throw a brick through a big, burly nightclub bouncer's windshield as he comes out of the bar/nightclub to go home after his shift ends. Make sure he sees you do it, and have your wasters ready.
The cheapest (though somewhat less effective than provoking a bouncer) way to do this, is to get a friend involved in the hobby with you! Joining the SCA can be a VERy expensive investment, but snagging a friend and buying an extra waster? I can hear the spare change jingling in my pockets now...
I don't have any friends who are into Rangering like I am, but I have several who fancy themselves knights and other things, so we all get together and do outings and such as realistically as possible within each person's own individual expectations. No inspections, no competitiveness over whose kit is cooler looking...everyone just does their own thing.
On such outings where the concentration is combat and not camping, we like to have the group start off at two different locations, with one group ambushing at some point along the journey, somewhat mimicking the actual adrenaline rush of sudden combat.
Wooden wasters and/or foam LARP/Boffer weapons make it incredibly easy to practice your skills against actual armed opponents. We prefer wasters so there's some actual punishment involved in not surviving. It makes it slightly more real, so we don't do foolhardy things due to the lack of risk associated with boffer/foam swords. All it takes is adding a little pain to practice to make people more careful and less Hollywood-esque. People fall into actual fighting forms and out of artistic flailing fairly quickly when we pull out the wasters.
As for archery skills and the like...practice, practice, practice. There's a thread up in the WMA/NMA forum regarding speed shooting techniques, as well as transitioning from shooting at opponents to close quarters hand-to-hand weaponry such as swords, staffs, and other handheld blades and the like. Feel free to ask any questions on that topic in that thread, as well as contributing to the ever-growing list of videos and links regarding techniques and whatnot. There’s never going to be a way to have an accurate combat archery event, as several have already mentioned that the arrows will have massive tips, be made of heavier materials, there will be draw weight limits, and many more things that take away from the realism and hamper our skills. But that’s just kinda something we have to deal with. When the Z-Day comes and the zombies attack, we Rangers and medieval re-enactors will all be ready, fitted with the right gear, and will get to put our combat archery skills to the test. Until that day, practice, practice, practice, so those mindless hordes don’t take you down with them.
The easiest way to do this is to throw a brick through a big, burly nightclub bouncer's windshield as he comes out of the bar/nightclub to go home after his shift ends. Make sure he sees you do it, and have your wasters ready.
The cheapest (though somewhat less effective than provoking a bouncer) way to do this, is to get a friend involved in the hobby with you! Joining the SCA can be a VERy expensive investment, but snagging a friend and buying an extra waster? I can hear the spare change jingling in my pockets now...
I don't have any friends who are into Rangering like I am, but I have several who fancy themselves knights and other things, so we all get together and do outings and such as realistically as possible within each person's own individual expectations. No inspections, no competitiveness over whose kit is cooler looking...everyone just does their own thing.
On such outings where the concentration is combat and not camping, we like to have the group start off at two different locations, with one group ambushing at some point along the journey, somewhat mimicking the actual adrenaline rush of sudden combat.
Wooden wasters and/or foam LARP/Boffer weapons make it incredibly easy to practice your skills against actual armed opponents. We prefer wasters so there's some actual punishment involved in not surviving. It makes it slightly more real, so we don't do foolhardy things due to the lack of risk associated with boffer/foam swords. All it takes is adding a little pain to practice to make people more careful and less Hollywood-esque. People fall into actual fighting forms and out of artistic flailing fairly quickly when we pull out the wasters.
As for archery skills and the like...practice, practice, practice. There's a thread up in the WMA/NMA forum regarding speed shooting techniques, as well as transitioning from shooting at opponents to close quarters hand-to-hand weaponry such as swords, staffs, and other handheld blades and the like. Feel free to ask any questions on that topic in that thread, as well as contributing to the ever-growing list of videos and links regarding techniques and whatnot. There’s never going to be a way to have an accurate combat archery event, as several have already mentioned that the arrows will have massive tips, be made of heavier materials, there will be draw weight limits, and many more things that take away from the realism and hamper our skills. But that’s just kinda something we have to deal with. When the Z-Day comes and the zombies attack, we Rangers and medieval re-enactors will all be ready, fitted with the right gear, and will get to put our combat archery skills to the test. Until that day, practice, practice, practice, so those mindless hordes don’t take you down with them.
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
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Willrett
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Pwyll
- Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:49 pm
- Location: SW Pennsylvania
Yes, very well said, Greg.
I train in WMA (and EMA) about 3 days/week. Much of this is sparring. We use lighter rattan, as it's a bit easier on the body, and wear the minimum of protective gear to (hopefull) prevent injury. And, let me tell you, those hits HURT. We get some nasty bruises, but it's mostly surface stuff.
For longsword, though, we use wasters, and slow it down a bit. Hickory is less forgiving.
But when the hits hurt like that, you don't want to get hit. You don't do stupid things, and you realize that "trading" is not a good thing.
LOL And, oh yes, the SCA can be very expensive. I don't really do it any more, for a number of reasons.
Still, I suppose it could be fun to attend some local events, and just do your own thing at them. A good place for shopping, at any rate.
I train in WMA (and EMA) about 3 days/week. Much of this is sparring. We use lighter rattan, as it's a bit easier on the body, and wear the minimum of protective gear to (hopefull) prevent injury. And, let me tell you, those hits HURT. We get some nasty bruises, but it's mostly surface stuff.
For longsword, though, we use wasters, and slow it down a bit. Hickory is less forgiving.
But when the hits hurt like that, you don't want to get hit. You don't do stupid things, and you realize that "trading" is not a good thing.
LOL And, oh yes, the SCA can be very expensive. I don't really do it any more, for a number of reasons.
Still, I suppose it could be fun to attend some local events, and just do your own thing at them. A good place for shopping, at any rate.
Pwyll
Come to the dark side.
We have cookies.
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Eledhwen
- Thangailhir
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At the moment most of my training is in kung fu, specifically the staff.
I've had a lot of other training from other sources though, and have been fighting in the SCA for....well, 30+ years although not in the last couple due to healing from injuries.
I really need to get archery into play; that is my weakest part, although I do get to work with my sling a lot.
SCA is expensive, for heavy list. The helmet alone is a very large expenditure for sure. I always keep myself aware of just how stylized Scadian combat actually is and what its uses really are; in point of fact, much of the safety procedures set in place actually negate some of its usefulness...as they say in the Corps, what you do in training is what you do in war.
Habit can be deadly as well as beneficial...it is all in what you have established.
Siani
I've had a lot of other training from other sources though, and have been fighting in the SCA for....well, 30+ years although not in the last couple due to healing from injuries.
I really need to get archery into play; that is my weakest part, although I do get to work with my sling a lot.
SCA is expensive, for heavy list. The helmet alone is a very large expenditure for sure. I always keep myself aware of just how stylized Scadian combat actually is and what its uses really are; in point of fact, much of the safety procedures set in place actually negate some of its usefulness...as they say in the Corps, what you do in training is what you do in war.
Habit can be deadly as well as beneficial...it is all in what you have established.
Siani
Nandalad!