How do you choose to wear your arrows?

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Jack
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Re: How do you choose to wear your arrows?

Post by Jack »

In the past when using a longbow for primitive hunts I'd gravitate towards a hip quiver with a backwards cant because drawing from one felt more intuitive and fluid but realistically that's probably less to do with the quiver type and more to do with having years of practice in C.A.S. in which I was drawing a pistol from a low slung holster in relatively the same position/orientation. Lots of overlapping muscle memory for the "gross motor skill" half of that equation.
But ultimately a hip quiver doesn't look any where near as cool as a back quiver lol
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Re: How do you choose to wear your arrows?

Post by Iodo »

I've been away from this thread for a bit, I don't know enough to take sides in this debate LOL, but I was speaking purely of English Medieval archery, it is quite likely that Mongolian archery and similar styles through history that make use of shorter, faster and lighter bows lean more towards the possibility of short range combat, but I guess you would still need another weapon because arrows run out

Cimrandir wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:41 pm Just a joke but yeah, Greg has the right of it. Anything posted by Lars should be treated the same as Shad - with a grain of salt the size of a large boulder.

agreed, although the stunts Lars preforms using the light weight bows often make me wonder if this is what Tolkien had in mind for the way elves would use a bow in combat, but with them being slightly above human in strength/agility it could make it possible for them to do it with a high draw weight?
...just a wild theory
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Odigan
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Re: How do you choose to wear your arrows?

Post by Odigan »

Iodo wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:07 pm ...it is quite likely that Mongolian archery and similar styles through history that make use of shorter, faster and lighter bows lean more towards the possibility of short range combat, but I guess you would still need another weapon because arrows run out
The question really is, what do you consider "short range?" The Manchu were known for their "short range" archery, using heavy bows (100+ lbs.) and massive arrows (1200+ gr.), but this was still at 50-70 yards. At shorter ranges than that, especially if your opponent is mounted, you're really minimizing your advantage. Of course, there are plenty of examples of mounted archers shooting game mere feet away; but then deer do not shoot back.
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Re: How do you choose to wear your arrows?

Post by Greg »

Odigan wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:41 amThe question really is, what do you consider "short range?" The Manchu were known for their "short range" archery, using heavy bows (100+ lbs.) and massive arrows (1200+ gr.), but this was still at 50-70 yards. At shorter ranges than that, especially if your opponent is mounted, you're really minimizing your advantage. Of course, there are plenty of examples of mounted archers shooting game mere feet away; but then deer do not shoot back.
Mounted archers are the only exception/instance I could think of that truly did combat with bows at what I would call short ranges. Even still, they were loading out of their bow hand.
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Re: How do you choose to wear your arrows?

Post by Turgolanas »

Regardless of historical archery records or Lar's historical accuracy (which I am inclined to believe is at least plausible) his techniques can be done with a war weight short-bow or horse-bow, which is what I see the average ranger carrying. That being said, when looking at how a bow would be carried when not strung and in the hand, I just don't see any reason why someone would have a bow in a quick draw holster equivalent. The archer should be carrying the bow ready to use if he thinks he is in danger or wants to attack, and if not I would wager he would keep it cased for protection.

Regarding combat ranges. I would wager that would depend largely on the terrain. I am basing my archer ideal on an archer who is working in the post oak forests of south Texas, which would cut bow ranges down significantly (rifle ranges as well) to maybe 50 yards max, and less so normally.

Personally, I would choose a spear as my primary weapon, and intend to use a bow as a hunting tool if I carry one at all. Using a bow as a primary weapon is not for me.

I have not done extensive research on this, but here is a point in his favor. I don't really have a personal opinion on whether or not he is a hack, I'm just interested in whether or not his shooting methods could be useful for an archery based ranger. In all honesty it is hard to make a historical ranger equivalent as the rangers are a fantasy invention as far as I know.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Archery/commen ... _anderson/
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Re: How do you choose to wear your arrows?

Post by Odigan »

Greg wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:24 am Mounted archers are the only exception/instance I could think of that truly did combat with bows at what I would call short ranges. Even still, they were loading out of their bow hand.
I should have been more clear. I think that even mounted, combat archers wouldn't want to be closing to ranges under 50 yards. Less than that puts them into range of darts/javelins and direct fire from slings; assuming archers are absent. From horseback it would feel dangerously close, as while you are faster, those 50 yards only take you 3-4 seconds to cover at a gallop, and you're a pretty big target.

It may be reasonable to think of "close range" as melee distance - swords, spears, etc. - while out to 50-70 or so yards is "medium range," and beyond that, "long range." Of course in artistic depictions, be it paintings or modern film, it's difficult to convey action between combatants at range, so things are compressed to fit on the canvas/screen and up the tension.
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Re: How do you choose to wear your arrows?

Post by Odigan »

Turgolanas wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:44 pm Regardless of historical archery records or Lar's historical accuracy (which I am inclined to believe is at least plausible) his techniques can be done with a war weight short-bow or horse-bow
Well then he should be demonstrating said techniques with a bow of 80+ lb draw, because across culture and period that is about the starting point for "war weight" bows.
Rather than go over what has probably been said here many many times, I'll just refer you to Nusensei's response to that thread. If you are seriously interested in historical archery, combat archery, target archery, or really any form of archery aside from hyperbolic trick-shooting, then you'd be best to just relegate Lars Andersen to the same place as any other slickly-produced overshared viral video.
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Re: How do you choose to wear your arrows?

Post by Turgolanas »

Fair enough, and I'll definitely check out other sources as well. I'm definitely still experimenting with archery styles, and my only decision so far has been that I want a back quiver because I don't want more things at my side, that olympic style archery is boring and not for me, and that I think I prefer to do Mongolian draw. I do hope to get up to a 55 lb bow at some point, which would be more than enough for what I would do with it (That weight is similar to what the plains native Americans used).
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Greg
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Re: How do you choose to wear your arrows?

Post by Greg »

Odigan wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:48 pmI should have been more clear. I think that even mounted, combat archers wouldn't want to be closing to ranges under 50 yards. Less than that puts them into range of darts/javelins and direct fire from slings; assuming archers are absent. From horseback it would feel dangerously close, as while you are faster, those 50 yards only take you 3-4 seconds to cover at a gallop, and you're a pretty big target.

It may be reasonable to think of "close range" as melee distance - swords, spears, etc. - while out to 50-70 or so yards is "medium range," and beyond that, "long range." Of course in artistic depictions, be it paintings or modern film, it's difficult to convey action between combatants at range, so things are compressed to fit on the canvas/screen and up the tension.
I was definitely under the assumption that they'd shoot closer than 50 yards frequently. Good information. The bit about how long it takes to close that distance is eye-opening. Thanks!
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Re: How do you choose to wear your arrows?

Post by Odigan »

Greg wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:29 pm I was definitely under the assumption that they'd shoot closer than 50 yards frequently. Good information. The bit about how long it takes to close that distance is eye-opening. Thanks!
In practice, probably? I'm sure if they knew there was no threat of thrown weapons why not ride right up to them? Present-day mounted archery competition courses place the targets at between 7-9 meters from the line, so that is pretty close (though they take up a lot of space to begin with). How close did they typically get historically? I don't know. Probably no-one does for certain, but I'll dig around. 16th C. tactics like the caracole using wheel-lock pistols had cavalry charge right up to pike squares (<15 yards or so) - firing on approach and when turning, like a Parthian shot - were abandoned under Gustavus Adolphus as they presented more risk to the attacking cavalry than their targets.

Things can move fast on horseback. Watch a professional polo match and remember that the field is 160 x 300 yards!
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