Rangers of Ithilien posting

For all of the Talk that doesn't fit elsewhere.

Moderators: caedmon, Greg

Post Reply
User avatar
mg2Arnor
Wanderer
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Rangers of Ithilien posting

Post by mg2Arnor »

Hey all. Is there a specified thread or board space for Ithilien Rangers here on the forum? Would that go under the "other human culture" board? Where has other talk been?
Calenthir - Dunedain Ranger of the late 3rd Age
User avatar
Thalion of Bree
Dúnadan
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:55 pm

Re: Rangers of Ithilien posting

Post by Thalion of Bree »

I feel like that would go best under "other human cultures," yeah. Good question.
-Thalion, Thontaur's son
Erfaron
Dúnadan
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:49 am

Re: Rangers of Ithilien posting

Post by Erfaron »

I’ve always posted things in “other human cultures”
"There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild now, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go." -Gandalf, Chapter 7, The Hobbit
User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2582
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: Rangers of Ithilien posting

Post by Manveruon »

Yeah, although in the strictest of sense, they ARE technically Dúnedain - they’re just southern Dúnedain rather than the northern Dúnedain we normally think of.
Maerondir Perianseron, also called “Mickel,” Halfling Friend - Ranger of the Misty Mountains
User avatar
Cimrandir
Haeropada
Posts: 938
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:44 am

Re: Rangers of Ithilien posting

Post by Cimrandir »

Personally, I would put it in Dúnedain Culture. I believe we already have a couple topics on that culture there anyway. Now if it was Gondorian culture at large, maybe in Other Human but it’s a case by case basis since a large section of the Gondorian populace is Dúnedain.
Persona : Cimrandir - late 3rd Age Dunedain
User avatar
mg2Arnor
Wanderer
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Re: Rangers of Ithilien posting

Post by mg2Arnor »

Manveruon wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:13 pm Yeah, although in the strictest of sense, they ARE technically Dúnedain - they’re just southern Dúnedain rather than the northern Dúnedain we normally think of.
Very true. At least the couple of Rangers that Frodo hears talking. Were all of that company Dunedain? And those that were, did they have the same qualities - like long life, extra strength and sensory powers, etc that Aragorn's kinsmen had? Or were they just of a Dunedain family line and they still kept those traditions like speaking elvish, having dark hair, etc?
Calenthir - Dunedain Ranger of the late 3rd Age
User avatar
mg2Arnor
Wanderer
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Re: Rangers of Ithilien posting

Post by mg2Arnor »

I guess I started this thread on a weird, ADHD tangent. I've spent the last 40 years obsessed with the Rangers of the North and all things Grey Company, and it wasn't until recently when I realized just how much detail Tolkien actually gives us about the Rangers of Ithilien. I kind of feel like there's a gold mine that I haven't explored there, LOL. Anyway, I know I could post about the Ithilien Rangers in specific Kit sections of the forum, but I was curious if there was another section devoted to them, since so much of their kit is actually going to be influenced by their essential function as a guerrilla warfare unit of the Gondorian army. Their kit would also be effected by the fact that they have a base of operations, and they have a small, specific area of interest. So as a military unit, they would have a more uniform, mass-produced, issued by your employer, less-than-special feel to their clothing. They would also carry less items, since they had a base of operations where they slept and ate, not being nomadic or far-wandering like the Rangers of the North. They were also an openly military unit of a recognized kingdom, so their kit might also reflect that as a difference compared to the Rangers of the North. These were all things running through my head that I wanted to chat with other ranger enthusiasts about, but I just didn't see a specific place for it. Hence the post. But hey, here we go.
Calenthir - Dunedain Ranger of the late 3rd Age
User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2582
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: Rangers of Ithilien posting

Post by Manveruon »

mg2Arnor wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:23 am
Manveruon wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:13 pm Yeah, although in the strictest of sense, they ARE technically Dúnedain - they’re just southern Dúnedain rather than the northern Dúnedain we normally think of.
Very true. At least the couple of Rangers that Frodo hears talking. Were all of that company Dunedain? And those that were, did they have the same qualities - like long life, extra strength and sensory powers, etc that Aragorn's kinsmen had? Or were they just of a Dunedain family line and they still kept those traditions like speaking elvish, having dark hair, etc?
As far as I understand it, the large majority of the population of Gondor is, at least to some degree, Dúnedain. Other, more learned members of the forum can correct me if I’m wrong here, but basically: Gondor was founded by Isildur and Anarion after their escape from Numenor, and a large portion of the people who were already settled in that general area were also Numenoreans, who had colonized the coastal and bay areas around what eventually became Gondor. Therefore, the majority of Gondor’s populace was at least in part ancestrally Numenorean (which makes them Dúnedain). Now, I believe it was said that they generally intermarried more with the “Middle-Men” in those parts throughout the centuries, so their ancestry was a bit more “diluted,” if you will, than that of the Northern Dúnedain (so they probably had slightly more ordinary statures and lifespans than their northern cousins), but they were still kindred.

As for the Ithilien Rangers and their kits, one important thing to keep in mind is that in pre-modern times, nations rarely had standing armies outfitted with standard, uniform kits (with a few notable exceptions - lookin’ at you, ROME!), so the kits of various warriors of that era was generally provided by the warriors themselves. People in the service of a lord often wore that lord’s heraldry and colors, and the lord might outfit those soldiers with basic gear, but it would still have been far from uniform. Now, does this apply to Gondor? I’m not 100% sure, since there does at least seem to be some kind of centralized military structure - but I would venture to guess that it’s likely the Ithilien Rangers were less uniformly outfitted than a lot of folks imagine. There were probably basic guidelines for kit handed down from the Steward, et al. (Like: tunic of green wool, boots of brown leather, bow of yew at least such-and-such draw weight, at least such-and-such many arrows of such-and-such length, etc.), and there certainly would have been blacksmiths and tailors and fletchers and so forth churning out roughly similar kit items for them - but I’m guessing a lot of their kits were probably also home-made, or even passed down generation to generation.

…But truth be told, I’m faaaaaaar from an authority on these things, so I very well might be kind of talking out of my posterior here. I’d probably look to Cimrandir, Udwin, and some of the other regulars here for a bit more grounded info on historical fighting forces.
Maerondir Perianseron, also called “Mickel,” Halfling Friend - Ranger of the Misty Mountains
Erfaron
Dúnadan
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:49 am

Re: Rangers of Ithilien posting

Post by Erfaron »

I tend to think of the Ithilien rangers similar to Roger’s Rangers in early US. They are a scout and guerilla warfare group, they are equipped by the military, but more than likely are able to change and augment their clothing and armament as they or the mission dictates. They have scouts going out so multi day trips are still a thing. I picked ithilien since the climate described is closer to florida than that of the north, so while I’m building my kit I keep that in mind.
"There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild now, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go." -Gandalf, Chapter 7, The Hobbit
User avatar
Hanasian
Wanderer
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:01 am
Location: Lakeshore Inn, Annuminas, Arnor
Contact:

Re: Rangers of Ithilien posting

Post by Hanasian »

Manveruon wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 12:04 amAs far as I understand it, the large majority of the population of Gondor is, at least to some degree, Dúnedain. Other, more learned members of the forum can correct me if I’m wrong here, but basically: Gondor was founded by Isildur and Anárion after their escape from Numenor, and a large portion of the people who were already settled in that general area were also Numenoreans, who had colonized the coastal and bay areas around what eventually became Gondor. Therefore, the majority of Gondor’s populace was at least in part ancestrally Numenorean (which makes them Dúnedain). Now, I believe it was said that they generally intermarried more with the “Middle-Men” in those parts throughout the centuries, so their ancestry was a bit more “diluted,” if you will, than that of the Northern Dúnedain (so they probably had slightly more ordinary statures and lifespans than their northern cousins), but they were still kindred.
You understand the lore pretty good. The whole intermingling got started when Gondor's King Rómendacil allied Gondor with the Rhovanion 'Northmen' in the lands north of Gondor on the eastern side of the Misty Mountains. They went to war against their common enemy the Easterlings, and to solidify the alliance, the king had his son Valacar live amongst the Northmen for a time after their victory as Gondor's Royal Ambassador. Valacar took it a bit further than his father anticipated and married the Rhovanion king's daughter, Princess Vidumavi. She had a son named Vinitharya, and Valacar gave him the Gondorian name of Eldacar. Being Eldacar was the eldest son in the line of kings, this led to a whole lot of trouble with the southern Dúnedain purists when it came time to ascend to the throne of Gondor when his father, King Valacar, died. A decade+ long civil war ensued when King Rómendacil's younger brother Calimehtar's grandson Castamir claimed the throne based on his 'pure' Númenórean Dúnedain blood. Though things were bad for a while, Eldacar was able to reclaim the throne, and the friendship between Rhovania and Gondor continued through the millennia. After another war a thousand years later, Gondor deeded their western lands to the Rhovanions who rode to Gondor's aid and the land became known as Rohan.

Sorry, I'm rambling on with what most likely know. This led me to re-read the appendices again! I would say that the Rangers of Ithilien would be considered 'Dúnedain' culture.
Hanasían
Annalist, Physician, & Historian
of The Black Company of the Dúnedain,
The Free Company of Arnor
Post Reply