FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

For discussion of Dunedain culture, what it might have looked like and how it worked.

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Manveruon
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Manveruon »

Udwin wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:35 am I don't know how different pronunciation would be, but it's probably a safe bet that Maeron would sound fairly close to Mairon....which was the name (Quenya) of the Maia who would become....Sauron.
So that's probably out.
However, Mickel the Ranger works on pretty much every level, so go for it!
I had considered that, certainly. I think the “ae” would likely be pronounced more like a long A sound, or a short “e”, whereas I feel the “ai” in Maeron would likely be closer to a long “I”, but yeah, there’s certainly a similarity. Still, I kinda’ like it, regardless of that, so I may still keep it as a sort of “formal” name - particularly when paired with the nickname to make it “Maerondaer.” Otherwise, I have also been kicking around possibly making it “Maeronlin,” which would translate to something more like “artistic man,” or “poet man.”
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Cimrandir »

I like the thought-process here! Especially "Hobbit-friend".

My one hang-up (and it is totally a personal one) is that Mickel to my ears sounds a little too Eastern European to my ears. Russian almost. Perhaps a stereotype but that's my first thought. Very nice for a Man of Dale but I'm not too sure about a Dunedain. Just my two cents though so please feel free to ignore me.
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Udwin »

Cimrandir wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:48 am I like the thought-process here! Especially "Hobbit-friend".
My one hang-up (and it is totally a personal one) is that Mickel to my ears sounds a little too Eastern European to my ears. Russian almost. Perhaps a stereotype but that's my first thought. Very nice for a Man of Dale but I'm not too sure about a Dunedain. Just my two cents though so please feel free to ignore me.
I guess if it's pronounced "MEE-kell" or "mee-KELL", then yeah, it sounds pretty modern European. But if it's pronounced "MICK-uhl' (rhymes with nickel) I think it works better... That's how Rob Inglis pronounces Michel Delving in the audiobooks at least.
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by ForgeCorvus »

Udwin wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:41 pm
Cimrandir wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:48 am I like the thought-process here! Especially "Hobbit-friend".
My one hang-up (and it is totally a personal one) is that Mickel to my ears sounds a little too Eastern European to my ears. Russian almost. Perhaps a stereotype but that's my first thought. Very nice for a Man of Dale but I'm not too sure about a Dunedain. Just my two cents though so please feel free to ignore me.
I guess if it's pronounced "MEE-kell" or "mee-KELL", then yeah, it sounds pretty modern European. But if it's pronounced "MICK-uhl' (rhymes with nickel) I think it works better... That's how Rob Inglis pronounces Michel Delving in the audiobooks at least.
I like MICK-uhl, both as a pronunciation and as your 'outside' name given to you by Hobbits but used by your peers as a running joke (as all the best ick-names are)
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Cimrandir »

Udwin wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:41 pm
Cimrandir wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:48 am I like the thought-process here! Especially "Hobbit-friend".
My one hang-up (and it is totally a personal one) is that Mickel to my ears sounds a little too Eastern European to my ears. Russian almost. Perhaps a stereotype but that's my first thought. Very nice for a Man of Dale but I'm not too sure about a Dunedain. Just my two cents though so please feel free to ignore me.
I guess if it's pronounced "MEE-kell" or "mee-KELL", then yeah, it sounds pretty modern European. But if it's pronounced "MICK-uhl' (rhymes with nickel) I think it works better... That's how Rob Inglis pronounces Michel Delving in the audiobooks at least.

Ahhh, that makes more sense. Thanks for the correction. MICK-uhl does sound quite a bit more Hobbitish. Why am I suddenly imagining a particularly industrious Hobbit really into canning being dubbed “Pickle Michel”?
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Manveruon »

Cimrandir wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:40 am Ahhh, that makes more sense. Thanks for the correction. MICK-uhl does sound quite a bit more Hobbitish. Why am I suddenly imagining a particularly industrious Hobbit really into canning being dubbed “Pickle Michel”?
Okay, but that would basically mean “Big Pickle,” and I don’t know if even a Hobbit would want to be called that. Better than “small pickle” though, I suppose. :lol:
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Cimrandir »

Heh, I didn’t even think of that. I was more struck by the silly rhyme. I suppose yes, a big pickle would be preferable to a small pickle though haha.
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Manveruon »

Looking into more info for persona building, I think I may have weirdly hit on nearly a perfect timeline by using my own birth year (1986) as inspiration and having my persona born in the year T.A. 2986. It would have him born into a period of relative peace and prosperity about 45 years after the Battle of Five Armies when the orcs and other such foul creatures were driven back, which slowly devolved into unrest and eventually war again (heh… perhaps bit close for comfort, if you ask me - a millennial :lol:) - and then finally a hard-won peace, with the defeat of Sauron and the establishment of the reunited kingdom under King Elessar Telcontar.
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Cimrandir »

Nice. Initially I was tempted to do the same and simply put Cimrandir's birth year as the same as my own (2994) but with me backing away from the Fourth Age and generally wanting to make things a bit more vague, I've discarded that idea (I really need to go back and update my persona thread now that Eofor has very kindly taken to linking it in his welcome posts). However I think that works quite well for you! I like it!
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Udwin »

It really does make things so easy that we can just change the millennium and have pretty-close to ready-made for late Third Age birth dates. (At least for Men...hobbits on the other hand are a total headache. Does one go with their actual birthday, or try to calculate an equivalent--since coming of age is at 33 for them? If my birthday was 2987, I'd be 35 at the end of the Third Age, which is only like, barely 20 by hobbit standards!)
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by caedmon »

Just had a idea on this. Manwe is the direct analog to Michael the Archangel in Middle Earth. (Leader of the host of Heaven, promoted after the former highest fell and became the primary antagonist)

I don't think there is any tradition to take the direct name from a Vala, but what about some form of 'Servant of Manwe', maybe Manwendil?
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Manveruon »

caedmon wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:15 am Just had a idea on this. Manwe is the direct analog to Michael the Archangel in Middle Earth. (Leader of the host of Heaven, promoted after the former highest fell and became the primary antagonist)

I don't think there is any tradition to take the direct name from a Vala, but what about some form of 'Servant of Manwe', maybe Manwendil?
This is definitely something I’ve thought about! I believe I read somewhere recently that taking the name of a Vala was considered an EXTREME taboo in Middle-earth (but don’t quote me on that, because I can’t remember where I saw it), so that might not be ideal - but using it as part of a descriptive name seems perhaps less egregious.
That being said, the more time goes on, the more I’m leaning towards something with “Maeron” in it (despite the unfortunately similarity to Marion, which I am aware of). If Maeron works on its own, that’s a definitely a front-runner for me - but if it needs something extra to make it a name rather than simply a noun, I’m considering something like Maerondir.
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