What does everyone focus on?

Western(esse) Martial Arts / Numenorean Martial Arts....

Combat and self-defense in Middle-earth

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Togon
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What does everyone focus on?

Post by Togon »

So I just found a HEMA group and of course, I'm integrating this element into my persona. Togon learned arming sword from his time in the Gondorian army and uses his falchion accordingly, but now he must learn a more Westernese weapon more fitting of an Ithillien Ranger, in this case, the ubiquitous longsword. My group does do other weapons like messer, but it seems we mostly focus on German longsword. Not complaining. I was wondering what others study for their characters. Did you weave that element in with your character? Did your school's weapon choice influence you? Or did you want to study a particular weapon and found a school that teaches it? Anyone incorporate elements from non-European or modern styles? I like martial arts and weapons, so I am very interested in this element. Like, I'm a former devil dog, so I figure my bayonet techniques could fill in for spear. I'm a wrestler, so I've got grappling for unarmed. What does everyone else study?
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by Eric C »

Really late reply to your question here. Over the past several years, I've been too broken down to focus on the combat arts. Back injuries, which led to knee injuries on top of shoulder injuries from bad form at the anvil all took me out of action. I'm hoping to start some stretching and see where that goes. If all goes well, perhaps I can start studying some form of martial arts again.

P.S. I'm an old soldier myself (as opposed to Marine, for those who aren't sure of the difference) so welcome!
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Greg
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by Greg »

A good number of us have HEMA experience in varying degrees. Odigan has studied and practiced for years, and I know Ursus is an instructor in a wide array of disciplines.
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by theowl »

Lately I've been in a sword & buckler mood, so I've been focused on I:33 and George Silver. In the past I've studied Fiore and dabbled in some German longsword. I recently picked up an Albion Castellan which is manageable in one hand and very formidable in two, so I've been doing some tinkering drills to see how much of the two styles I can blend.
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Eofor
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by Eofor »

Not sure how I missed this original post either. I've done a fair bit over the past 20 years in both Eastern and Western martial arts but have lapsed recently.

German Longsword will stand you in good stead.

If I were to offer any advice it would to never stop questioning your application of techniques. Too many HEMA schools nowadays teach tournament fighting and are pale imitations of what the art should be, on the field a light uncontrolled tap delivered a fraction of a second before your opponents blow would be scant comfort if theirs removes your head from your shoulders.

Over the years I have come to believe that there is little difference in the teachings. A master swordsman is exactly that, not a master longswordsman, or a master sabreman. There are only so many ways you can move your body and every sword has an edge and a point. In essence it is walking the path of the warrior that is the key, not what you carry as you do it.

I mean..... that sounds far more cheesy than I intended but I can't think of an easier way to say it. I'm also sorry for my use of the gender specific terminology.
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

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Eofor wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:50 am Too many HEMA schools nowadays teach tournament fighting and are pale imitations of what the art should be.
This, 100%
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Turgolanas
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by Turgolanas »

I've been experimenting with a number of weapons, and am currently planning to focus on spear or spear and sword/dagger. Our local ranger group does some free sparring, and so far the spear is by far the best way to kill an opponent without suffering injury. I am almost completely self taught, and am focusing on what we know of viking combat for techniques and drills.

I am also looking at shield and sword/spear, but I don't currently have the stamina to use a shield for long periods of time, and definitely don't want to carry one as a ranger. I would rather wear mail constantly truth to be told.
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by ForgeCorvus »

Turgolanas wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:38 pm I've been experimenting with a number of weapons, and am currently planning to focus on spear or spear and sword/dagger. Our local ranger group does some free sparring, and so far the spear is by far the best way to kill an opponent without suffering injury. I am almost completely self taught, and am focusing on what we know of viking combat for techniques and drills.
Lance or hewing spear?
Don't forget that a spear is not just the pointy end, you've got a staff and a club as well
I am also looking at shield and sword/spear, but I don't currently have the stamina to use a shield for long periods of time, and definitely don't want to carry one as a ranger. I would rather wear mail constantly truth to be told.
The only way to train to use a plank, is to use a plank..... I had a mate who had a training shield that was nearly twice the weight of his fighting shield.

Have you thought about a buckler?

With mail, its better to wear it for five miles then carry it for one
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Turgolanas
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by Turgolanas »

ForgeCorvus wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:25 pm Lance or hewing spear?
Don't forget that a spear is not just the pointy end, you've got a staff and a club as well
Technically a viking throwing spear, or at least that's what windlass called that particular spear head. I'm definitely going to be looking at staff drills, as well as spear drills.
https://www.museumreplicas.com/viking-throwing-spear
Have you thought about a buckler?
I haven't really looked into it, I'm not a huge fan of them, but I have no real reasoning behind that other than I think they look odd.
With mail, its better to wear it for five miles then carry it for one
Definitely. And it's surprisingly comfortable and quieter than I expected. I don't have my own yet, but I plan to get some. I'm trying to add a full grey company rides to war kit to complement my ranging kit.
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ForgeCorvus
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by ForgeCorvus »

Turgolanas wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:40 pm
ForgeCorvus wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:25 pm Lance or hewing spear?
Don't forget that a spear is not just the pointy end, you've got a staff and a club as well
Technically a viking throwing spear, or at least that's what windlass called that particular spear head. I'm definitely going to be looking at staff drills, as well as spear drills.
https://www.museumreplicas.com/viking-throwing-spear
I see, its their lightest 'Viking' style so they've called it a throwing spear.
Its a Lance as its Stabbier then the broader & heavier Hewing spears..... Not a bad choice, it just works better for a more point-centric style (think Bayonet rather then Halbard) and a longer shaft (being lighter).

I'd love to see this mounted with a floating toggle like on early boarspears..... You don't want a spitted Ork forcing his way up the shaft and biting you to death do you ? :-)
Have you thought about a buckler?
I haven't really looked into it, I'm not a huge fan of them, but I have no real reasoning behind that other than I think they look odd.
Take a look at I.33, its the oldest Western fighting manual thats been found to date. It teaches unarmoured 1on1 combat with arming sword and buckler
With mail, its better to wear it for five miles then carry it for one
Definitely. And it's surprisingly comfortable and quieter than I expected. I don't have my own yet, but I plan to get some.
Buy riveted mail... Some of the most reasonable priced is made in India, partly because labour is cheap and partly because there are still areas that have traditionally made and used mail even after the West had stopped wearing metal armour at all.
I'm trying to add a full grey company rides to war kit to complement my ranging kit.
Now that is an impressive goal...... I look forward to seeing it
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Thalion of Bree
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by Thalion of Bree »

My main focus is on arming sword. I've done a little bit of German longsword, but longswords are hard to come by in my neck of the woods, and arming swords (for me, at least) are small enough to use effectively in CQC without sacrificing the benefits of a full-size sword.
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A Mayer
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by A Mayer »

Eofor wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:50 am Not sure how I missed this original post either. I've done a fair bit over the past 20 years in both Eastern and Western martial arts but have lapsed recently.

German Longsword will stand you in good stead.

If I were to offer any advice it would to never stop questioning your application of techniques. Too many HEMA schools nowadays teach tournament fighting and are pale imitations of what the art should be, on the field a light uncontrolled tap delivered a fraction of a second before your opponents blow would be scant comfort if theirs removes your head from your shoulders.

Over the years I have come to believe that there is little difference in the teachings. A master swordsman is exactly that, not a master longswordsman, or a master sabreman. There are only so many ways you can move your body and every sword has an edge and a point. In essence it is walking the path of the warrior that is the key, not what you carry as you do it.
Well said Eofor.
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by Eira Yavanndil »

What Eofor and others pointed out, absolutely.

I’ve been doing what we call Historical Fencing for years, the term eventually being used in order to differentiate it from the HEMA tournament scene. Nothing wrong with folks getting together and competing, it’s a good pastime for many, but as soon as it’s a competition, there are rules, and with rules comes a way of fencing/sword fighting that’s specifically adapted to winning according to those rules. Thus it becomes a sport in the quest for points to win a medal, and the true martial applicability takes a seat further back.
The HF scene focuses more on the self defence aspect, how to avoid getting hit or injured. We still use modern protective gear, masks et c, as we have day jobs that require us to be fully functional afterwards, but we strive for a martial mindset when training. E.g. double hits are a no-no, if that happens we know that we didn’t read or respond to that given situation correctly.

My background is mostly Scottish baskethilt, smallsword, rapier and some sabre, sidesword and longsword. In other words, a fair bit isn’t applicable for a Ranger, however I find in particular smallsword is a great teaching tool to start people learning the martial principles of defence with a sword (the word fencing comes from the Art of Defence).

As far as swords go, they are primarily either cutting or thrusting oriented, with some being able to do both. Those are really tricky to fence against!

But aye, I’d like to get more into singlehand or hand-and-half sword/ longsword, but I won’t waste my time with groups that train for scoring points and winning tournaments.

Character wise, I’m probably aiming for some sort of half-elven northern Ranger, so looking into what sort of swordsmanship would be most plausible. An adaptable, slender longsword type that can be wielded with one hand if necessary, related to Aragorn’s Strider sword would be very interesting.

And you never know when you need a brand in the other hand to fend off some Nazgûl with no respect for personal space!
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Turgolanas
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by Turgolanas »

Eira Yavanndil wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:47 pm An adaptable, slender longsword type that can be wielded with one hand if necessary, related to Aragorn’s Strider sword would be very interesting.

And you never know when you need a brand in the other hand to fend off some Nazgûl with no respect for personal space!
That philosophy is what drove the purchase of my current blade (although I wouldn't describe it as slender). It is light enough and balanced towards the hilt enough that I can easily wield it one handed, but it has a two handed hilt and a decent amount of reach. I'm currently of the opinion that versatility is key when training and carrying, and competency across many weapons is better (for a ranger) than a mastery of a single weapon. If I have to face a master long-swordsman, for example, I should use a spear rather than try to match skills, or other wise cheat. Fighting fair is fighting to lose after all :P
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Re: What does everyone focus on?

Post by A Mayer »

Eira Yavanndil wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:47 pm What Eofor and others pointed out, absolutely.

I’ve been doing what we call Historical Fencing for years, the term eventually being used in order to differentiate it from the HEMA tournament scene. Nothing wrong with folks getting together and competing, it’s a good pastime for many, but as soon as it’s a competition, there are rules, and with rules comes a way of fencing/sword fighting that’s specifically adapted to winning according to those rules. Thus it becomes a sport in the quest for points to win a medal, and the true martial applicability takes a seat further back.
The HF scene focuses more on the self defence aspect, how to avoid getting hit or injured. We still use modern protective gear, masks et c, as we have day jobs that require us to be fully functional afterwards, but we strive for a martial mindset when training. E.g. double hits are a no-no, if that happens we know that we didn’t read or respond to that given situation correctly.
Very much this....and what Eofor wrote.
After many years away from formal training, I recently joined a school that studies English systems. They're primarily oriented towards longsword against armored opponents. Their sparing is very much as Eira described. Yet I still get something out of it. Mainly working on my distance, time and measure. But my main effort as far as blades is Messer. I like the weapon and the system for a Ranger. I feel though, that the bow and/or spear are more important than the secondary weapon.
The martial training and knowledge is certainly important. When you need it, you better have it. And all of these are just tools much like our flint and steel, which a Ranger uses far more than his weapons.
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