Middle Earth Ranger Forum

Specifically.. what kind of arrows?
Not sleek target points I think...
But big heavy war arrows with tiny bodkins?
Slimmer hunting arrows with swallowtail hunting heads?
Middleweight compromise arrows?

Some mixture of types and weights, spine issues be darned?
Maybe even a specialty head or two for small game or launching a fire missile?

I imagine the core of the question is: what are they shooting at mostly? Game? Or enemy? And if the latter.. how well armored, at what range? Yes?

Thoughts?

Leaving the question of hunting regulations in the real world aside for the nonce - what do you choose to carry, and why?

I should think much would depend on the ranger, the type of bow, and his purpose. For myself I take Aragorns quote of being a hunter of the enemy to heart. I shoot a heavy stave intended for war. It can be used to hunt of course but is weighted for combat. As for arrows I carry heavy shafts with a mixture of bodkins and broadheads that will handle a wide variety of uses. As mail is the main armor in ME I should think the bodkin would see a lot of use. Then again how much armor does the common grunt Orc or brigand acces to? My bet is not much so there is reason to believe broadheads might be the more popular choice. From actual testing on good riveted mail and padding I will say that broadheads will pierce at close range but the stave needs to be somewhere around or above sixty lbs. Problem there is that at that range the archer should already be prepping for close combat or running. Most folks shoot at targets ranged around thirty to fifty feet on average. When someone is running at you full tilt this is really only time for one good shot before things get serious. So if it's a common weighted hunting stave you're shooting I would think a good few bodkins would be a safe bit of insurance to carry in ones quiver to make up for the lack of power with more piercing ability. As I said I carry both, but versatility is usually what I'm after.

I typically carry six to nine arrows in my quiver. I don't feel a need to carry a full dozen...I'm not headed out to open war any time soon. If I were, I'd ditch my arrow sock, which limits capacity a little bit, and carry a full dozen.

I'm partial to low-profile, multi-purpose points like the one shown at the bottom of your photo. I don't have any at the moment on my current set, but that's the plan. I would prefer myself to be carrying 5 of those, and one larger swallotwail/similar broadhead for larger game, or if carrying nine, two larger heads and seven smaller-profile points.

I don't like bodkins all that much for carrying in the woods; they'll bury themselves irretrievably in a tree or stump, and are of little use when hunting. Remember, Strider was described as the greatest traveller and huntsman of the time; being a skilled (and properly equipped) hunter needs to be a high priority. To that end, the wider broadheads make occasional larger game possible, yet the smaller points are fully capable of taking a squirrel without destroying the carcass. The width of the blade presents enough surface area for shock damage without having to do lots of cutting/bloodletting like is necessary with larger game to put them down quickly, preventing the frustration of long blood trails. At the same time, a small-profile hunting point like this is still narrow and point-heavy enough that you could expect one to be combat effective at reasonable ranges without having to have excessive draw poundages behind it.

Ursus: This was written as your post was being written, so don't take my dislike of bodkins in the woods as a response to what you wrote, fyi. Opinions may differ, but we approach rangering a little differently, so that's expected.

Greg wrote:Ursus: This was written as your post was being written, so don't take my dislike of bodkins in the woods as a response to what you wrote, fyi. Opinions may differ, but we approach rangering a little differently, so that's expected.

Not at all my friend! As I said I carry both for that very reason. In fact my broadheads are very similar to the one on the bottom. Here's a link to the etsy seller that I buy them from for any interested. https://www.etsy.com/shop/PrimitiveProgression He doesn't have them stocked at them moment but he does have a few other goodies.

Long bodkins, standard points, swallow tails, blunts, and always a couple of whistlers. The actual loadout varies a bit depending on what I want to do, but those are the types of arrows I have made. I do have some fire basket arrows, but I do not carry those about. Most of them are like the second from the right in your photo, Greg; classic or standard medieval. I tend to carry a dozen total, sometimes a little more, depending.

Eledhwen

I am thinking that carrying a dozen shafts, maybe half with hunting points, the rest bare is a compromise between need and potential use. A Ranger is more a 'spy' than a soldier.
Then also carry a bag of heads that can be glued on as needed.
Upper right are bird & varment (rabbit) for normal hunting with the rest various forms of combat.

Then when you move into an area of potential fighting, add the necessary points (bodkin to broadhead) to the bare shaft, depending on what your observations of the situationh require.

If going into combat, remove the hunting points and add war-points to those shafts.

Glue is mostly pine resin mixed with ashes so can easily be heated and the heads switched as needed.

This is actually sort of what I had been thinking while reading the above comments. If a ranger were to carry extra points that are all of a similar grain weight, but in several different designs, that ranger could swap them out at need, depending on their current circumstances. In between, one could either leave the shafts bare, or choose a sort of "compromise" point that would work in most situations, but then bring the specialized points along just in case.
Of course, this doesn't really help if the ranger would be in need of heavier or lighter shafts (like war arrows, for example), but given that most rangers would be hunting and skirmishing at most, rather than going to open war, it seems likely there could be a reasonable compromise in equipment between hunting and fighting, if that makes sense.

Thank you all for your advice!

Hrmm.. given what Ursus has said about "just time for a shot or two" and that my interests lean more towards exploring than hunting, it does seem weighing things towards the martial side makes sense: then add a couple tipped with small game blunts for opportunistic fare and a signal arrow or two for trouble. (Edledwhen - the whistlers sound like great fun! Do you use the modern machined brass ones, or carve the whistles that ride on the shaft I see pictures of? Or something else? )

As regards nasty goblins in the occasional bit of scavenged maille: to what extent can a heavier shaft or sharper tip make up for not having as much "oomph" from bow weight at moderate ranges? I can manage 50-ish pound hunting recurves alright, but the massive warbows are just beyond me. Absent the lie-on-the-ground-and-play-crossbow trick anyway.

Rik - thank you for the glue tip! I've been using a modern glue from 3 Rivers, and I'd much rather go traditional. Any tips/things to look out for in for mixing it up? Do you harvest the resin yourself, or purchase it somewhere? Can you store a resin/ash mixture for later use, or do you have to mix it fresh each time?

I've been getting a few traditional heads here and there over the last few months - by summer I might actually figure out the fletching thing. So much to learn!

Pine pitch is super easy and fun to make and use! I have a tuna can of it that I use around the house/workshop, but a stick with a hardened blob is more manageable to pack and efficient to use on the trail.

I gather my own sap, keeping my eyes open for resinous trees on college campuses usually. You're looking for the hardened globs that ooze out where limbs have been cut/broken off or the bark damaged (fresh sap is too sticky!)
I've found the ideal mixture is about 70% resin/sap, ~25% finely powdered charcoal, and ~5% beeswax. (When I first tried making it, I used about 50:50 sap:charcoal, and it was much too brittle) It is possible to over-cook it (makes it brittle), so you really only need as much heat as will make it fully sticky and workable.

Wow, great info! How cool!

Ditto! thanks for the recipe Udwin, I will have to experiment with that!

Elleth wrote:As regards nasty goblins in the occasional bit of scavenged maille: to what extent can a heavier shaft or sharper tip make up for not having as much "oomph" from bow weight at moderate ranges? I can manage 50-ish pound hunting recurves alright, but the massive warbows are just beyond me. Absent the lie-on-the-ground-and-play-crossbow trick anyway.

Nothing wrong with that poundage of bow. I shoot the warbow because Ive spent years conditioning my tendons and body to shoot it, hard to give up on that kind of hard work. A fine tipped bodkin or a narrower broadhead will make short work of riveted maille from your poundage of bow most of the time. Much will depend on the amount of padding beneath the maille and the range. In regards to butted maille. I did a test a few years back for my students in which I put a butter knife through a square of butted maille draped over a block of ballistic jell. I don't even bother to test it against arrows but Im sure if that was the case arrows would pierce it with ease.

Great recipe, Udwin. Beats the pants off of carrying a stick of ferr-l-tite.

Nice variety, good looking stuff, I tend to use some simple bodkins from a local fletcher. I favor sword more then bow as my eyes are not awesome these days

Re: Udwins comment on pine glue...
You use the glue-stick, which is hard and non-sticky, by simply heating it over a small fire or match until it is liquid enough to drip into your head or stick to your fletching or whatever, it dries quickly and is very strong.
I try to carry an empty altoids can with me so when I see sap, I can collect it for later use.


Now
Go over to Soft Kit and see a new thread I did on Reference Booklet, inspired by the recipe given.
Basically, I keep in my Range Box a waterproof notebook filled with whatever archery info I find useful from a list of my bows and their weights and required string lengths to a pic of bow anatome to archers paradox and ways to deal with it to.. well anything regarding archery I find useful and want handy.

I have another for paddling. This is filled with conversions, wild herb drawings and uses, recipies for simple foods while kayaking and pics of what a teaspoon of herbs/spices looks like in the palm of my hand, simple non-GPS and non-compass navigation.. whatever I will find useful but do not trust my memory.

Now Udwin has inspired me to create a MER reference booklet.
This will have relevent info from my camping & archery books plus recipies for pitch glue, etc.
Since I have only now thought about this, I am not certain if i will make or buy the booklet.
I only know that it must look period and fit in a small pouch.
Since I am going to the Yuma Ren Faire in Feb and the Phoenix Ren Faire in Feb-Mar, I should have a chance to find one I like.