hello all, i don't post much but always am reading here,
now in the past month or so i realized Aragorn,s jerkin isn't suede but top grain leather made so the rough side is out. there are a bunch of scenes in the films that if you watch close and sometimes in slow motion you can see this.
now i have been trying to research why leather items would be made rough side out and can't find much besides WW2 boots were made like that.
some reasons iv read are , it hides the stitching better to it won't get caught or snagged as easy , on the smooth side it sits on top.
the rough side can take more abuse with out showing.
so I'm here to ask what others may know about this style of wearing leather.
I'm about to start a new jerkin and now I'm unsure on what side i want out.
rough out leather
Re: rough out leather
Long time no see!
Back in 1836, I seem to remember our shoes (straight 'brogans') were constructed with the flesh side out as well. No idea why, although the protect-the-stitching-better hypothesis makes some sense.
In terms of film logic/visual storytelling (which, let's remember, is why the PJ!LotR costumes look like they do), I would guess it's a good way to add extra texture and thereby visual interest to a costume.
More realistically, it's a good way to make your garment look like braintan, which is really the only leather worth wearing.
I can't imagine flesh-side-out would help with water repellency...your oil/wax mixture would soak in, as opposed to staying on the outside as a layer between the leather and you. And if you oil braintan, you negate the breathability.
Back in 1836, I seem to remember our shoes (straight 'brogans') were constructed with the flesh side out as well. No idea why, although the protect-the-stitching-better hypothesis makes some sense.
In terms of film logic/visual storytelling (which, let's remember, is why the PJ!LotR costumes look like they do), I would guess it's a good way to add extra texture and thereby visual interest to a costume.
More realistically, it's a good way to make your garment look like braintan, which is really the only leather worth wearing.
I can't imagine flesh-side-out would help with water repellency...your oil/wax mixture would soak in, as opposed to staying on the outside as a layer between the leather and you. And if you oil braintan, you negate the breathability.
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Re: rough out leather
That goes back even earlier - some shoes in the 18th century were made the same way, but the rough flesh side was then coated in blackball (one recipe was a mix of tallow, beeswax, and bone ash) to smooth the fibers down and give the shoes a little water resistance and a color touch-up. I don't know why they did it either, but some folks have hypothesized that it was more comfortable to have the smooth side against the feet than the rough side.Udwin wrote:Back in 1836, I seem to remember our shoes (straight 'brogans') were constructed with the flesh side out as well. No idea why, although the protect-the-stitching-better hypothesis makes some sense.
That seems as likely an explanation as any, really...Udwin wrote:In terms of film logic/visual storytelling (which, let's remember, is why the PJ!LotR costumes look like they do), I would guess it's a good way to add extra texture and thereby visual interest to a costume.
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Re: rough out leather
Hunh..that is interesting. Yes, some 18th c. shoes were rough-side out, though I think finished almost smooth again.
edit - ha! Beaten by Taurinor.
(FWIW, I can't imagine the smooth side in being comfier, but to each their own)
For the films, I think visual interest was the answer. And trying to make the costume look less biker or nazi.
For the character - perhaps also less chance of shine/reflection in the woods?
In real life... Greg swears by his braintan jerkin, which is rough on both sides. A similar finishing technique existed IIRC in Germany going waaaay back, just using fish oils in place of brain oils.
edit - ha! Beaten by Taurinor.
(FWIW, I can't imagine the smooth side in being comfier, but to each their own)
For the films, I think visual interest was the answer. And trying to make the costume look less biker or nazi.
For the character - perhaps also less chance of shine/reflection in the woods?
In real life... Greg swears by his braintan jerkin, which is rough on both sides. A similar finishing technique existed IIRC in Germany going waaaay back, just using fish oils in place of brain oils.
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Re: rough out leather
Do you mean that in some of the scenes, you could see that the inside of the jerkin was smooth/shiny? It would be good know where to look.grimwulf wrote:hello all, i don't post much but always am reading here,
now in the past month or so i realized Aragorn,s jerkin isn't suede but top grain leather made so the rough side is out. there are a bunch of scenes in the films that if you watch close and sometimes in slow motion you can see this.
now i have been trying to research why leather items would be made rough side out and can't find much besides WW2 boots were made like that.
some reasons iv read are , it hides the stitching better to it won't get caught or snagged as easy , on the smooth side it sits on top.
the rough side can take more abuse with out showing.
so I'm here to ask what others may know about this style of wearing leather.
I'm about to start a new jerkin and now I'm unsure on what side i want out.
If you look at the stitching, it was deliberately made very rough; any competent woodsman could do a neater job. The costumers were trying to make it look rough in comparison to the shirt under it, IMHO. I think they were trying to make it look like deerskin, but didn't have it handy.
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Re: rough out leather
yes in the end duel Aragorn has in the fellow ship , i watched it frame by frame and you can see the underside of his jerkin is smooth and and so dark its almost black, and also when Merry and Pippin flip him on his back when training with Boromir .
then again in the two towers when they are on the march with Rohan , after his flash back the come in close on his neckless and there you can see the jerkin collar flopped open is nice smooth leather.
thank you guys for the reply,s , I'm still unsure on what side of my deerskins ill use to make my new jerkin. both seem to have merits.
then again in the two towers when they are on the march with Rohan , after his flash back the come in close on his neckless and there you can see the jerkin collar flopped open is nice smooth leather.
thank you guys for the reply,s , I'm still unsure on what side of my deerskins ill use to make my new jerkin. both seem to have merits.
Re: rough out leather
The only other possible reason that I do not think was mentioned was that the rough side casts no reflection, like some flat paints used in stealth applications. Beyond visual texture (which knowing the why's and wherefore's of costuming would be my first guess also) it could be an attempt at stealth or blending into the environment. (if we give them that much credit for authenticity over Hollywood reasoning.)
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I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed!